New and Experienced climbers over 50 #23

Jan Mcwrote:

Lori, and that is only easy 10 edging.  Go look at the first 20 feet of Games without Frontiers on Future Games wall to see what 13 edging looks like.  That is when 2 things have to happen.  1. You have to be exact with your foot placement and then once placed never move it.  And 2. You really need to believe that foot is not going to move on its own.  Without those two things you can't stay on the wall.  And of course, your posture must be perfect and you must have fingers of steel.  Other than that, anyone can climb it...

You never mentioned those last two things before. I was working on the “believe” part and thought I’d have it in the bag.
Several thousand posts ago rgold gently admonished me against putting too much effort into “desperate slab”… and I laughed over that when I was back on my project (Tiptoe To Topanga) because that is exactly how it felt. In fact I think that would be a great name for a route: Desperate Slab.  

I have to note that neither Peter Croft nor Bob ever look desperate on rock. Bob whistles, Peter looks like he’s about to pour a martini. 

Ward Smithwrote:

…  I’ll try to find something with a mono on it. 

Try Hurricane Hinzi. Just sayin’.

Victor! How's the leg? Will you be joining us at City of Rocks in June?

The leg. Let’s just say I’m planning on being there. My site is near Idaho Bob’s, I arrive June 10, if memory serves. I’ve been back in the gym since mid-August. I’m leading 10s and top roping harder stuff. But walking is still pretty uncomfortable. And I’m at 120 degrees flex, maybe a bit more. Everybody says a year for full recovery, so I should be good for COR. But the crux move on Redtail! Hopefully, a rock-over onto my left leg is possible.

I’m looking forward to seeing you again! Really sorry I missed you last year. 

It's cold out and I have a few minutes more while my dryer load finishes so I'll tell a quick story, which relates to the idea that you have to believe it will stick;

All this talk of slab has brought back fond memories of my old partners .  We climbed in the gym together a lot and they were both stronger on steep sport than me (not surprising).  One of them came up with the idea that we should go to Tuolumne Meadows and do the All-Slab weekend.  I had to look at an old photo album. This was 1995, no cell phones photos but somebody took a couple of pictures with a film camera.  This is all I have from that weekend:

I don't remember every route we did but I know we did the usual suspects at Stately Pleasure Dome and south flank of Daff.  I remember we started on Table of Contents, then Footnote, with me leading.  Then moved over to Get Slick and J1. was going to lead.  Got up a bit and looked down and said " I just can't do it.  There are no holds.  I can't force myself to go to the bolt".  Then J2 said "No thanks" also, which is how I ended up leading every route of the All Slab Weekend!  A very distinct memory of that weekend was that I had one of my "almost died" experiences.  I was on a Dave Caunt route 11-something on Pywiack I think and down low there was a long slab to a headwall.  I ran up the easy low angle section and started up the headwall heading toward a bolt but realized something was wrong.   Looked down and saw the first headwall bolt down and to my left.  I had to reverse some moves of 5.10 knowing I was going to take a 50 foot groundfall if I fell.  That was quite awful. The guys were dead silent down below, just praying. But I lived and finished the route, which was nice and safe if you didn't stupidly miss a bolt. It was one of Dave's newer bolted routes which at that time he had started to bolt much closer together than his earlier era scarefests.  Anyway, neither of the guys fell on anything all weekend so they COULD have done it, the just didn't believe it. OK laundry is done, bye-bye.

I love this story Phylp ! mastering slab in any capacity in my opinion is worthy of some bragging rights. I was just talking to my old gym coach Ryan who has been intending to come to Joshua Tree for quite a while. He can do 511 and 12 gym routes that are overhung and really hard with no problem But I bet if you put the two of us on a moderate slab here in Joshua Tree he might be a little shy.  

As we speak I’m taking a walk to a house that is being built a block away. Maybe Russ will have some input on what this is all about. This little house has been under construction since we moved in three years ago and it’s no farther along today than it was then. There’s crews there every day. I don’t know what the heck they’re doing but I’m starting to think that they tear down what they build and  build again. Wondering if it’s some kind of a write off scheme or tax game. Just truly baffling.

Jan Mcwrote:

Lori, and that is only easy 10 edging.  Go look at the first 20 feet of Games without Frontiers on Future Games wall to see what 13 edging looks like.  That is when 2 things have to happen.  1. You have to be exact with your foot placement and then once placed never move it.  And 2. You really need to believe that foot is not going to move on its own.  Without those two things you can't stay on the wall.  And of course, your posture must be perfect and you must have fingers of steel.  Other than that, anyone can climb it...

I just stumbled into an old shot Guy Keesee took while we were working on Games.

This is what it looked like about three seconds before I peeled. Just moments before, those finger crimps were just above head height. Then I stepped my left foot up, followed by stepping up through with my right up to where it is there, all while pulling the crimps down to waist height. What has to happen now is for me to be strong enough to stand directly over that right  foot, place the left, look up, and move up my hands. Rinse and repeat. When I can get my right foot where my right hand is in that shot, and I have a little rail (just out of the top of the frame) in my right hand, the crux is past and there are a few .11+ pulls through to a stretch of about 40 feet of 5.11 trad face with some thin, but solid, gear.

But in this pic all of that cool stuff goes in the toilet. My right ankle is softening, so I set my right knee against the face and slouch just enough that my ass sticks out. With zero chance of placing the left foot, I'm already looking down to where I'm gonna go (and it's not going to be up).

Marc Soltan happened to be around the day Jan and I sent the thing, and got this shot. Two different camera's/lenses from two different vantage points make the comparison a little weird, but I'm 90% sure my right hand is in the same place in both pics. The difference in the latter (successful) attempt is that instead of trying to float up through all relaxed and smooth (my default style), I just went all animal on it, powering up keeping my hips forward and head up. 

One thing that was interesting about working on and eventually doing this climb with Jan was that our body types are very different. The obvious difference is in height/reach, but there's more to it than that. Do you know how we measure our bodies in terms of %/fat, %/H20, %/bone density, etc.? Someone ought to find a way to measure a bodies' % of connective tissue: tendons, ligaments, fascia, etc.  If they were to perform such a measurement on Jan, they'd want to preserve his body for science.  Anyway, between our size and ways of moving on the stone, we each did an entirely different climb, sharing in the process but having had two different experiences. 

Joe Boardman and Peter Tasker climbed the north wall of Changabang in about 1976 (think El Cap @ 6,800M). They each wrote a book about the climb. Reading their accounts separately, without knowing the back-story, much of the time you wouldn't know they were describing the same climb. Jan and I had a microscopic version of this experience on Games Without Frontiers.

P.S. The easiest way to find Boardman/Tasker's accounts of Changabang, and other unreal climbing accounts, is to beg, borrow, steal (or buy) the https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/441520.The_Boardman_Tasker_Omnibus..

I feel like a wanker talking about a couple of SoCal craggers and the likes of Boardman and Tasker in the same breath...   

Victor Kwrote:

Try Hurricane Hinzi. Just sayin’.

Thanks, but I was talking about a new route. Nonetheless I looked it up on MP and might check it out on a climbing day, 12a is a good grade.

Kris, I love what you just wrote. Not just a footnote  on Games, but a description with pics of how you climbed it. Hugely instructive for me as a 5.9-10 climber looking to see how it’s done.  

I certainly have waxed on and on about 5.9 routes I have climbed.  Maybe that’s one of the cool things about this community—there’s all round happiness for all sends.

When I think of the 513 routes in this Park including those by Scott Cosgrove I have to wonder why the disclaimer. I’m still trying to understand where Joshua tree aligns with other climbing areas. Was it just playground, a place to learn some moves and then  move on? I will likely never see more than Joshua Tree in my lifetime and that’s plenty for me with a few exceptions. But this is really home.  Did it become something less when you left for bigger challenges?

Jan Mcwrote:

That is when 2 things have to happen.  1. You have to be exact with your foot placement and then once placed never move it.  And 2. You really need to believe that foot is not going to move on its own.  Without those two things you can't stay on the wall.  And of course, your posture must be perfect and you must have fingers of steel.  Other than that, anyone can climb it...

Spot on, even for delicate climbs much easier than .13.  One thing which irritates me is climbers keep adjustng their foot placement on the same edge/hold prior to commiting.  One tweak I can undesrstand but keeping bopping it around?  Please, no.  Take a good look at it, then precise foot placement, put weight on it, commit, and go. Thaat is the believe part (2 above).

If I might add a third (to perfect posture above).  Except for the limp you are about to delicately move, the rest of your body should remain still as a statue.This is where having good core strength and being to hold tension/compression helps.  Took me way too long to figure this out BITD.

Kristian Solemwrote:

I just stumbled into an old shot Guy Keesee took while we were working on Games.

This is what it looked like about three seconds before I peeled. Just moments before, those finger crimps were just above head height. Then I stepped my left foot up, followed by stepping up through with my right up to where it is there, all while pulling the crimps down to waist height. What has to happen now is for me to be strong enough to stand directly over that right  foot, place the left, look up, and move up my hands. Rinse and repeat. When I can get my right foot where my right hand is in that shot, and I have a little rail (just out of the top of the frame) in my right hand, the crux is past and there are a few .11+ pulls through to a stretch of about 40 feet of 5.11 trad face with some thin, but solid, gear.

But in this pic all of that cool stuff goes in the toilet. My right ankle is softening, so I set my right knee against the face and slouch just enough that my ass sticks out. With zero chance of placing the left foot, I'm already looking down to where I'm gonna go (and it's not going to be up).

Kris, great blow-by-blow, detailed, account of your experience.  I really enjoy reading it.  Thanks for sharing.
Glad you and Jan got the send he same day.  Awesome.

Lori, While I can’t answer your question specifically for the J Tree climbers—of many generations, as I was only an occasional visitor there, but I think that it is quite universal, that for some, their local, or semi-local, crag is their ‘be all and end all’, while for others it is only a ‘stepping stone’. Each ‘approach’ is equally valid, as what matters is the individual’s own experience. I have friends and acquaintances who, for a variety of reasons, have made a small local crag or bouldering area, the principal focus of their climbing activities, who, when they do visit bigger areas, even world class ones, sometimes find them disappointing and can’t wait to get back ‘home’ to work in their latest ‘project’, even if said project is an ‘eliminate’ variation to an established route.

I can think of many worse things than having J Tree as your principal focus. Enjoy what you have.

Many of us older climbers have recently received the very sad news of the death of our dear friend Maria Cranor. She was one of the few California women who climbed at a high standard in the 1970s and 1980s, and was a positive role model for Lynn Hill** and many other women (when female climbers were a rarity). More than a talented climber, she was a thoughtful and brilliant person, who went on to become one of the founders of, and leading influences at, Black Diamond. As an undergraduate, she studied early human archaeology at UC Berkeley. Later in life, she studied Physics and was a lecturer at the University of Utah. But, perhaps her real gifts lay in seeing (and eliciting) the best in people; always making a personal connection. 

She was a So Cal Regular for many years. She was the first woman to lead (on-sight and clean of) Valhalla at Suicide Rock, climbed and guided extensively in Joshua Tree, and established a number of first ascents at Joshua Tree. Later, as a resident of Salt Lake City, she was a pivotal figure in the SLC climbing scene. 

Here is a Memorial Thread on MP for Maria: Maria Cranor Stonemaster

[** Lynn lists Maria as one of the five women climbers who influenced her.]

I remember all those days spent hanging with everyone at JT and Maria was always in the mix.  She was better than most of us deserved - so damn nice, and really smart.  Kind of a mother figure almost and would always admonish us (well me anyway) for being a dick or an idiot.  Back in the 70s it was basically the same 20 or so people at Josh every single weekend during the climbing season.  We all got to know each other really well. It was a damn special time and Maria was a big part of that.  Even though I haven't actually seen Maria since Tuolumne in the mid/late 80s or the StoneMaster reunion (can't remember which was more recent), I will still miss her.

I'm very sorry to hear of Maria's passing. I only hung out with her a few times. A wonderful woman for sure. May I express my heartfelt sympathies to all of you out there who were close with her?

As an aside, my avatar pic on this forum has been, for years, Maria's classic 1980 FA: A Woman's Work is Never Done.   

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I think my first overseas climbing destination will be Kalymnos. I don’t know America and it’s unfair of me to judge it by the news and TV shows etc but there’s not a lot that appeals to me other than the natural aspect.
I used to be shit at climbing slab but I’ve improved. Some of the slab I’ve climbed is smooth granite down by the sea. Other than that a little bit of water polished rock at Araps.
Give me overhanging roofs with jugs any day! My motto is ‘if you can cut your feet do it because it looks better in the photos!’   

Carl, the mass media portrayal can make the USA seem an uninviting place to visit. Nothing could be further from the truth in my experience. I've had tremendous hospitality and friendship from the climbing community on my visits. 'The natural aspect' and the climbing are both stupendous of course.

I've climbed a reasonable amount in Australia and I'm fairly confident there is nothing like the glacier polished granite the folks above are talking about. Mt. Buffalo has some granite slabs but with much better friction and more featured rock. The low angle teflon-like slabs give a memorably insecure form of climbing that is quite unlike anything else I've experienced. I was never great at aproneering but [spray]my highpoint in the genre, Green Dragon, was memorable in its sustained insecurity. On every move I felt I was about to fall off, between every move I felt it was only a matter of time before I started to slide[/spray]. 

In other news, it has finally stopped raining here so I could combine climbing with visiting my mum who is still living independently but needs regular support. We had a glorious day at a sea cliff close to where she lives. 

Ward Smithwrote:

I am not going to Arizona in February, but instead am going to Shelf Road Colorado to put up new routes with Dave Quinn.  He and his wife bought a house 40 minutes away.  I’ll try to find something with a mono on it. 

Shallow monos at Shelf?  Yeah, you'll find them!  Have fun - if you get a sunny day it's glorious there in the winter!

GO

Maria a true Stone Master gone to soon!

She was “one of the boys” could hold her own on hard climbs and was impressively smart - she was the smartest one of the group.

Will be dearly missed. 

Todd Berlier wrote:

Very sorry to hear of Maria's passing.  I worked at BD in the 90s and early 00s and talked with her many times. i certainly wasnt close to her, but anyone who spent anytime with her would speak very highly of her. ....

....i rewatched this video last night, which has a short bit in with her that shows her spirit.

https://youtu.be/Foiy2aKv_RY

Thanks for this, Todd!

Maria comes in a few seconds after this here:

https://youtu.be/Foiy2aKv_RY?t=325

Todd Berlier wrote:

Very sorry to hear of Maria's passing.  I worked at BD in the 90s and early 00s and talked with her many times. i certainly wasnt close to her, but anyone who spent anytime with her would speak very highly of her. 

i have to admit that i was intimidated by her. i think mostly as a result of not having (or seeking?) strong female role models in my teens and twenties or due to my own insecurities. this is despite her warmth and kindness whenever i did speak with her. when i moved up to middle-management i was honored enough to be invited to parties at her home, but still felt intimidated tbh.

it wasnt until i was back at school and walking back from visiting my physics professor and i saw her in her office. i stopped in and we chatted of life post BD and climbing and it was the time i felt like i made a real connection with her. 

a great person gone too soon.

i rewatched this video last night, which has a short bit in with her that shows her spirit.

https://youtu.be/Foiy2aKv_RY

I was in the SLC valley during that time, '93-'07. We had to have run into each other, I did a few jobs for the BD crew while I was learning to climb. What kind of climbing were you doing back then?