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How to know if sandstone is climbable
Bryce Willsonwrote: There is no objective way to determine climbability by sight. Boulder around the base or TR it if possible, it will probably be come apparent but even climbability won’t guarantee boltability. If questionable call the Hotline. |
That’s cleaner motivation to climb than most posters here have, from what I can gather. So props for that. Basics on new cliffs: 1) Find a bomber natural anchor above the section of the cliff that looks most promising. 2) Rappel with a flat pry bar, like a carpenter’s Wonderbar, and clean any loose holds as you pass them on both sides of the fall line. Swing from side to side on the way down to check out all possible climbing lines within reach. 3) Decide if there’s a line worth climbing, and if you can rig a toprope off your natural anchor. If you can’t, place a couple of bolts in a location where a climber can lower off with minimum rope abrasion, and/or in a spot that serves as an anchor for adjacent lines. 4) Climb and decide whether you want to bolt it for leading. Bolting a lead well, and anchor placement, requires considering a lot of factors all at once, and your work is there forever for the scrutiny of your fellow climbers, so DFU. |
Tradibanwrote: This |
Bryce Willsonwrote: Just a newb to developing Bryce (which you say you don't intend to do) not necessarily to any other parts of climbing. Even though you don't plan to develop this is a question that would best fit in a development/FA forum (if there was one) and is probably best answered by people who develop and climb FA's. Your question shows your head is in the right place but you are green on this subject, there's nothing wrong with that and no one is intending any disrespect. Good luck and be careful, mostly have fun! |
Princess Puppy Lovrwrote: I wouldn’t trust or climb any route you developed. You’d use expansion bolts in wingate. |
Chad Millerwrote: This is an interesting burn, it’s not even really a burn. The other day I rapped off three button heads in volcanic tuff So I could start rebolting with glue ins. Chuckwalla is maybe some of the worst rock I have ever touched, and the wall was once mostly wedges and expansion bolts. Chances are an expansion bolt will hold you. Unless the crag has a rich tradition in bolts ripping out, I wouldn’t worry about it. Given that I have climbed some of the rock in question I would use glue ins and concete screws. The best walls without bolts are quite steep and tall and not great for hooks. So you need to at least place a bunch of temp bolts to really figureout the route. My advice to not listen to mp seems true, this thread is mostly flamers. Next time your in Washington Chad, you wanna come check the 40 glue ins I placed last month, there on existing routes so people might not even know I placed them! 50 more going in next month!  |
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Also for the rock is a “scared temple” group, can you guys come help me out? |
Princess Puppy Lovrwrote: Nobody on mountain project will be of any help…. Thought someone posted that on the first page, but not sure where it went? |
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To find out if the sandstone is any good, just wait till the next heavy rain storm. Then climb it the next day. Come back to MP and see if a bunch of people flame you. Then you know the rock is good. |
Curmudgeon Donwrote: well I was gonna leave the flaming alone, then chad implied we would all die from expansion bolts!! But seriously I will take anyone with able hands that is willing to help, chads included!! |
Princess Puppy Lovrwrote: I never said or implied such a thing. I said you would use expansion bolts on wingate. If you think doing so is a good idea then you probably shouldn’t be placing bolts. |
Chad Millerwrote: At this point you guys troll yourselves lol. Your implying that placing anything but a glue in leads to catastrophe or your just trying to flex your puppy teefs. If you are that concerned about it, then get out and replace all these expansion bolts. They are all over the desert, there are even significantly worse bolts than 5-piece on old routes. I have replaced a good amount of bolts, and I only have questioned about 9 bolts being safe enough to whip on. But hey, if you are the expert it might be worth sharing your personal experience with expansion bolts failing in the desert because there isn't a lot of of that content floating around on the internet. I don't think it is a good or bad idea. Bolts are like seatbelts and glue ins are like ABS (in cars). Yeah ABS is better but will you die if you only have a seat belt and no ABS? I agree we should have ABS but do I think less of those that do not have it? |
Princess Puppy Lovrwrote: I’m not a huge Chad fan, but he’s got a point. A point that clearly went over your head. I didn’t interpret his comment as anything you’ve said. I viewed it as a comment that has very little to do with expansion vs. glue in but rather, expansion bolts (specifically) in super soft wingate sandstone.…I’m also not sure I’d knowingly climb on anything you’ve bolted….mostly because you boast about bolting choss that sounds miserable and you act as if it’s something we should be impressed with…I mean why else would you talk about bolting shit routes so much? |
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Try to chip the starting and crux holds. If they produce dust when you fire up the chisel, you’re good to go. |
Not Not MP Adminwrote: Yup. Also, I'm not a big fan of myself. Why else would I post here? |
Not Not MP Adminwrote: One mans choss is another mans treasure!! |
Princess Puppy Lovrwrote: No it's not. Choss is choss. It's only a desperate, egotistical, and masochistic fool who thinks otherwise. It's nothing to be ashamed of. |
Chad Millerwrote: Where should I be developing? Am I missing a checkbox for what is and is not choss. One famous developer told me, "I bolted the worst rock I have ever touched and now it is one of the most famous routes in america! I made a turd classic!" I wont disgree that developing is an egotistical circle jerk. That is the consensus among me, my friends and the old developers. But to beat your chest claiming you know with impunity what rock is good and what rock is bad, is the same as a soccer mom claiming she only drinks top tier wine. |
Princess Puppy Lovrwrote: You can develop anywhere your ego and the local climbing community allows it. Doesn’t change the fact that you put up routes on choss then brag about it. Finally, you’re not a famous developer and I doubt that anything you put up will become a classic. |
Princess Puppy Lovr wrote: I was on board with your whole oNe-mAns-TRasH-iS-aNoTheR-mANs-TrEASurE schtick but you definitely lost me, along with credibility, saying any route developer in the 90’s only developed choss. Not only is that incredibly disrespectful to Alan Watt‘s and all other 90’s developers, but it’s also hilariously wrong. Places like the red and new, which were first developed in the 90’s don’t have a lot of choss piles put up during that time frame because Porter and company had pick of the litter when developing. This continued into the early 2000’s. Stick the current PNW development when speaking in absolutes especially, cause I know for damn sure, you weren’t climbing in the 90’s or even early 2000’s. But really come to Washington and show me where I should be bolting. All the older developers agree with me and love my MP threads! We both know for a fact that ain’t true, pal! Whatever helps ya sleep at night though lol |
