Best gear for Lead Rope Soloing?

Do you know El Mudo?

Manuel Larios wrote:

Do you know El Mudo?

I have heard of it, it seems to feed well but has some rope creep issues.

I just took a look at some photos of El Mudo.  It looks like it works on some principles very similar to the Soloist, and may therefore have the same reliable lock off and smooth feeding characteristics.  I see that Ezra Henderson says may have some rope creep issues.  I am not sure what that means, but I am definitely going to try and buy an El Mudo.  I am excited that someone else (other than Rock Exotica} has gotten into the game of trying to make a lead rope solo device.  I don't count devices like Grigris and Revos that were not originally designed for rope solo lead.  None of those can come close to a Soloist, but this El Mudo might be a good option.  I am going to try to get one and test it.  If I can, I will report here on a comparison to Soloist.  

Brian Davis wrote:

I just took a look at some photos of El Mudo.  It looks like it works on some principles very similar to the Soloist, and may therefore have the same reliable lock off and smooth feeding characteristics.  I see that Ezra Henderson says may have some rope creep issues.  I am not sure what that means, but I am definitely going to try and buy an El Mudo.  I am excited that someone else (other than Rock Exotica} has gotten into the game of trying to make a lead rope solo device.  I don't count devices like Grigris and Revos that were not originally designed for rope solo lead.  None of those can come close to a Soloist, but this El Mudo might be a good option.  I am going to try to get one and test it.  If I can, I will report here on a comparison to Soloist.  

What the rope creep issues are is that it can slowly slide down the rope in some cases if you are sitting on it. People seem to really like its feed though, and I don’t think that the rope slip issue is a big issue unless your rope is wet. You should check out the lead rope solo Facebook group, which has a lot of info on lead rope solo.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/265622081104985/

I use an upside down grigri attached with a quicklink with a cache loop running in between my legs to a microtrax on my haul loop for better feeding (and higher chance of grigri engaging). It's worked pretty well for me and I trust it pretty well; it's gotta br better than trusting a bad belayer!

Brian Davis wrote:

I know this is an old thread, but I can't stand not saying something that I feel strongly about, and which no-one else seems to be saying.  I have been rock climbing for over 30 years, most of that time on rope-solo lead.  Most of this is trad climbing, and usually multi-pitch at about the same difficulty as I do with a partner.  I think by far the best device ever made for rope solo leading is the Rock Exotica Soloist.  I also own a Rock Exotica Silent Parnter, but the Soloist is very much superior.  The Soloist feeds far more smoothly on lead, and it doesn't have any internal complicated mechanisms that can freeze or gum up and fail to engage, the way the Silent Partner can.  The one oft-cited downside of the soloist (does not lock off in upside-down fall) is grossly exaggerated.  You just always tie a backup on the feed-in rope, especially in situations where you might flip over.  The smooth feeding and certain lock-off of the Soloist compared to any other device far outweighs this one concern that can easily be solved with a backup knot, which you should use anyway with any rope solo lead system.

I just dusted off my 20+ year soloist and took it out on some easy terrain. Do you pre-tie your backup knots on the ground Brian?

James Corbett wrote:

Well I can’t afford a silent partner and I have heard that revos can rip your rope if you fall on them. Is that true??

I’ve used the Revo many times and have taken a few unexpected falls on it with zero issue as far as rope damage goes.   It feeds incredibly well. 

Fyi, anyone stating how well their setup works without mentioning the rope details makes it kind of ambiguous still. In my experience every device has a pretty small tolerance for working well. I've also never tried anything below a 9.5. Roca Siurana seems the best to me that I've tried with a Grigri+ because of the 1 to 1 weave and slick fibers. Currently working up the nerves to try the Revo.

Brian Davis wrote:

I know this is an old thread, but I can't stand not saying something that I feel strongly about, and which no-one else seems to be saying.  I have been rock climbing for over 30 years, most of that time on rope-solo lead.  Most of this is trad climbing, and usually multi-pitch at about the same difficulty as I do with a partner.  I think by far the best device ever made for rope solo leading is the Rock Exotica Soloist.  I also own a Rock Exotica Silent Parnter, but the Soloist is very much superior.  The Soloist feeds far more smoothly on lead, and it doesn't have any internal complicated mechanisms that can freeze or gum up and fail to engage, the way the Silent Partner can.  The one oft-cited downside of the soloist (does not lock off in upside-down fall) is grossly exaggerated.  You just always tie a backup on the feed-in rope, especially in situations where you might flip over.  The smooth feeding and certain lock-off of the Soloist compared to any other device far outweighs this one concern that can easily be solved with a backup knot, which you should use anyway with any rope solo lead system.

Exactly my experience and thoughts as well. I've tried multiple devices and the Soloist has been always the best (simplest -- KISS) in my opinion. Been using one (actually wore out the first) for around 30 years now. 

I don't use a backpack and I don't tie knots ahead of time. The real key (as with all solo lead devices) is being able to estimate where to tie the next backup knot so you don't run out of rope in a tenuous spot; planning enough length to make it to the next stance can be tricky.

Another thing I sometimes do when switching back and forth between free and aid, primarily during FAs (hooking/drilling, etc.), is to unclip it from the chest harness and let it hang when in aid mode. Just clip a single biner into the Soloist clip-in point to keep everything in place. This way your chest harness won't cause the device to disengage if you fall upside down when your aid piece rips. This is purely anecdotal but in my experience it works well in these scenarios. Unfortunately there's not much you can do, other than tie backup knots, when free climbing. 

I use a revo for any lead soloing, aid or clean, and a Beal Tiger rope. Its 10mm thickness and unicore construction set my mind (generally) at ease about the revo's teeth.

For TR solo, I really like the Camp Goblin. it feeds super clean and is the closest thing I've seen that is "rated" for a TR solo fall.

has anyone used a Petzl ASAP as a device for rope management and or backup?

I've been using a TAZ Lov3, with a microtrax to take care of the cache loop, with pre-tied slip knots. I've been quite happy with this setup for the past couple of years. I find that the Lov3 pretty well catches a fall instantly. Having stated this; I look forward to experiment with my El Mudo 2.0, once Spring shows up. 

Finn Lanvers wrote:

has anyone used a Petzl ASAP as a device for rope management and or backup?

Hey Finn, 

I've used an ASAP a bunch as a back up device on top rope solo (little too heavy for me for TRS).  The ASAP is a bomber device--I really liked it.  But I climb lots on ice, and I got spooked about the internal pawl mechanism freezing up, so I moved away from the ASAP.  For pure rock, however, I think they're great.

Finn Lanvers wrote:

has anyone used a Petzl ASAP as a device for rope management and or backup?

I've seen it be done as a backup for a grigri, racked on a gear loop but attached to the belay loop with a sling. I can't see it working for rope management as it isn't unidirectional. 

ryan climbs sometimes wrote:

i would be suspicious out the asap as a back up sue to in needing 2m/sec fall speed to catch 

the kong backup is a sweet toothless device 

The Kong device looks pretty brilliant!

ryan climbs sometimes wrote:

i would be suspicious out the asap as a back up sue to in needing 2m/sec fall speed to catch 

the kong backup is a sweet toothless device 

The revo requires 4m/s and people don't seem to be having issues with that locking. 

Toothless devices can cut the rope instead of desheath it depending on the device and the forces involved. 

Guy wrote a blog post about double revo method

https://auftriib.com/lead-rope-soloing-filling-the-summer-gap/

How well does the Kong back up run up and down a rope for TRS?  I'm sure it's not as smooth as a MT but do you need to mind it at all or does it work well with a lightly weighted rope?

Thanks Ryan, that's the information I was looking for.  

Re: Kong Backup. That is not necessarily true. It has a free running mode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7avRWYrDsU
As well as a locking mode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40NUii_BOJo

You only need the string if you intend to use it in the locking mode... which also adds considerable friction so you will need more weight on the ground to keep it running smooth. With the free running mode you need zero weight on the rope on the ground, the ropes weight itself is totally sufficient. Some devices, such as the petzl shunt have been used with a small string to bring it down... or even a string attached to --for lack of a better way to phrase it-- nose clamp and string, that will detach if it is pulled on too sharply because they don't have a free running / trailing mode.

I would not use a Kong Backup for LRS, only TRS... but I like 2 microtrax style devices more and have no desire/need to downclimb TRS.