Soloist Death at El Cajon Mountain

This one hits close to home. I had some judgmental thoughts on this, mostly revolving around how traumatic it must be for other climbers to witness such an accident. But then I remembered when I was 22, I used to rip on my motorcycle down country roads back and forth from school to see the folks back home. Some years later a friend of the family was killed on those same roads when a tractor pulled out of a blind driveway. I finally learnt my lesson when I wrecked in the Santa Monica mountains and sold the bike for good .

Nowadays I'm more likely to pick wildflowers than doing anything too risky. The kind of wisdom that comes with age I suppose. It is hard to take something away from someone, that makes them feel alive!

...

P.S. Dachel, glad you feel comfortable posting up here. Take care of yourself! I put 2+2 together and realized my friend and I were the goons that were surprised to see you rope soloing on Lie Detector last week. I was the one that asked, 'how'd you get the rope up there ??' haha   Give me a heads up if you ever want to talk and have a chill day out there.

Take care of yourselves, everyone !

Dachel Fwrote:

Why be bitter against a dead person? Of course soloists take on the risk of the worst case scenario, as much as everyone else may not be okay with that decision of theirs, they’re going to do their own thing anyway and the rest of us can’t physically/literally hold them hostage. My mentality has been the same for years: in regards to judging how people live their own life, it is selfish to put your feelings in before them - it is not selfish for anyone to do their own thing. Now yes actions have inevitable consequences, the whole intention vs reality convo is too philosophical for here and now, but my point still stands. I personally find it selfish to call someone selfish when they’re living their own life when it comes to the “think about other people’s feelings” card. Everyone has their own idea on what it means to live a fulfilling life, therefore we are all inevitably going to hurt other people’s feelings throughout life while making our own decisions. It hurts a lot. I’m not going to downplay it or lie, I’ve cried every day since, I feel lost without my best friend, but I could never blame him or be mad at him.

I do believe in the “at least he died doing what he loved” cliché. We’ve had our deep conversations, that’s how he wanted to go out. Hell, it’s how I want to go out too. Perspective is subjective and it’s okay that it is, it’s up to everyone else to accept that that just how it is.

I think is a pretty normal reaction; not typical, but certainly not unusual.  I've had a couple of friends pass away, including one climbing, and part of me was mad.  Mad at them; mad at the universe, etc. (as well as sad).  They did something stupid and, though not intentional, they deprived their friends and family of spending their future with them.  

Dachel Fwrote:

I do believe in the “at least he died doing what he loved” cliché. We’ve had our deep conversations, that’s how he wanted to go out. Hell, it’s how I want to go out too. Perspective is subjective and it’s okay that it is, it’s up to everyone else to accept that that just how it is.

Dachel, free soloing is NOT how you want to go out. Soloing is one helluva drug but don’t let the idea that dying for it isnt so bad.

Please reconsider your approach to free soloing, your sleeping giant story is disconcerting and nothing personal but I don’t think you have the climbing experience to solo totally in control. I waited 10 years before going ropeless and I think that’s a good rule of thumb.

Godspeed.

Tradibanwrote:

nothing personal but I don’t think you have the climbing experience to solo totally in control. I waited 10 years before going ropeless and I think that’s a good rule of thumb.

Godspeed.

Silly goose, I have been climbing for over 9 years. My family dished out money for me to learn how to climb outside with a legitimate guide when I was younger, and I’m still learning every day. I’m definitely not God on a wall, but to assume anyone’s experiences are not enough when you don’t know them is quite foolish, dontcha think? The beauty in climbing is how many different styles there are, one would naturally branch out at some point, and with that comes making mistakes. Nothing personal, but I don’t think you have the social experience to converse totally in control ;)

Dachel Fwrote:

I do believe in the “at least he died doing what he loved” cliché. We’ve had our deep conversations, that’s how he wanted to go out. Hell, it’s how I want to go out too. Perspective is subjective and it’s okay that it is, it’s up to everyone else to accept that that just how it is.

Have you ever been up high without a rope and had a close call? I’m talking about an instant where you’re coming off but somehow manage not to, and you’ll never know why you didn’t fall except that it just wasn’t your day to die?

I have. I was up on the last pitch of a four pitch climb in the Needles. I was setting up to reach a finger lock when my foot slipped. I’ll never know what kept me there. 

It was a life-changing experience. It taught me that I wasn’t invincible, and that I really didn’t want to die like that. It’s an experience I pray you never have, those kinds of things can go either way.

I’m not saying don’t solo, but it’s hard to hear someone your age say that’s how they want to go out. Maybe think about staying tied in for a while, hold off on the soloing until you’ve had some time to process what just happened, and have some clarity. You said you two were loners, part of what brought you together, but right now is a good time to lean on your friends. They’ll appreciate your trust.

Hell, lean on people here who resonate with you. That's what the pm function is for.

Dachel Fwrote:

Silly goose, I have been climbing for over 9 years. My family dished out money for me to learn how to climb outside with a legitimate guide when I was younger, and I’m still learning every day. I’m definitely not God on a wall, but to assume anyone’s experiences are not enough when you don’t know them is quite foolish, dontcha think? The beauty in climbing is how many different styles there are, one would naturally branch out at some point, and with that comes making mistakes. Nothing personal, but I don’t think you have the social experience to converse totally in control ;)

I’m definitely not the guy to correct your hubris, so I wish you extreme luck and many clicks.

Dachel F wrote:

Silly goose, I have been climbing for over 9 years. My family dished out money for me to learn how to climb outside with a legitimate guide when I was younger, and I’m still learning every day. I’m definitely not God on a wall, but to assume anyone’s experiences are not enough when you don’t know them is quite foolish, dontcha think? The beauty in climbing is how many different styles there are, one would naturally branch out at some point, and with that comes making mistakes. Nothing personal, but I don’t think you have the social experience to converse totally in control ;)

and then

Tradibanwrote:

I’m definitely not the guy to correct your hubris, so I wish you extreme luck and many clicks.

No but I am.

I genuinely feel terrible for this young lady - listening to her on a couple news clips and you can tell she's really devastated by the loss of her friend.

Nothing about your recent tale pasted here speaks to experience (all due respect.)  Although there were wild men and women in the earlier days of climbing that shunned the whole "fundamentals first/difficulty and danger increase with time/etc" mantra that was more prevalent...nothing like today.  It seems the more time that passes and the more in-you-face climbing and the outdoors becomes with the glut of social media at our fingertips, the less serious a lot of newcomers are taking it.  That can only lead to more close calls and more untimely deaths in the sport.  It's just math.

Hopefully something positive comes from the tragic loss of your good friend - I'm hopeful at least one person reads the online discourse and adjusts their climbing habits a little toward the safer side of the spectrum, IF they were out of whack.

Nice posts all around, KSolem - appreciate your experience and insight based on it.

Kristian Solemwrote:

It taught me that I wasn’t invincible, and that I really didn’t want to die like that. It’s an experience I pray you never have, those kinds of things can go either way.

I’m not saying don’t solo, but it’s hard to hear someone your age say that’s how they want to go out. Maybe think about staying tied in for a while, hold off on the soloing until you’ve had some time to process what just happened, and have some clarity. 

Trust me when I say I hope deep down that's the conclusion I draw someday, that I don't want to die climbing. I know it all takes time, finding clarity, learning, all the above and more. Just as I said earlier, making mistakes is normal when you try to do new things out of curiosity. Mistakes go beyond the physical world, there's definitely mental mistakes too. Ex. holding onto a mindset that isn't particularly healthy. All I have to say is I'm open to change going forward and listening to what others have to say. Hence why I decided to talk here. I appreciate the time all of you took to share your thoughts. 

Deleted my original comment because I'm an asshole and no, people do not call this area el cap, it was a shitty joke.

Whether we die in a rockfall, soloing, or a piece popping, it's a tragedy and I shouldn't be such a hardass. Some of us don't make the best judgments, but we need to be more kind to each other in this world.

I apologize and my sympathies go out to those who loved him.

Dachel Fwrote:

Trust me when I say I hope deep down that's the conclusion I draw someday, that I don't want to die climbing. I know it all takes time, finding clarity, learning, all the above and more. Just as I said earlier, making mistakes is normal when you try to do new things out of curiosity. Mistakes go beyond the physical world, there's definitely mental mistakes too. Ex. holding onto a mindset that isn't particularly healthy. All I have to say is I'm open to change going forward and listening to what others have to say. Hence why I decided to talk here. I appreciate the time all of you took to share your thoughts. 

I've been in and out of climbing for almost 50 years and the first time I got nearly killed was 40 years ago doing stupid ass stuff. 

There is no chance anyone that has made it to the beginning of true old age like me would say that the intervening years of discovery and wonder between youth and older age were not overwhelmingly more valuable than dying young ignorant of so much more that this life and love of this earth can give over time.

And time is what we need to learn the lessons. The only thing we know for sure of this consciousness is that when it's gone all evidence is that it is gone forever. Don't throw away the miracle that is your life for a moment's pleasure.

Reveling in the wonder of this earth from even the safety of the meadow is more than enough to live for and at the end we all will beg for one more day to see the sunrise on her beauty before the eternal darkness that is death.

As part of my job, I visit several nursing homes daily, including some for alzheimers/dementia patients that are almost like prisons. It is depressing, and most of the old people I see there are "already long gone". It's made me decide I want to live my life in a way that guarantees i'll never make it that old. Dying young doing something you love might be better than the alternative. 

Rest in peace buddy. 

Daniel Cwrote:

As part of my job, I visit several nursing homes daily, including some for alzheimers/dementia patients that are almost like prisons. It is depressing, and most of the old people I see there are "already long gone". It's made me decide I want to live my life in a way that guarantees i'll never make it that old. Dying young doing something you love might be better than the alternative.

Rest in peace buddy. 

There are a lot of old people out there who live high quality lives. 

"Dying young doing something you love might be better than the alternative." The operative word being "might."

Getting yourself killed young when you have no idea what the future holds for you would be a damn shame.

Edit: It's gotta be rough seeing that stuff daily. Those places are hell.

I hesitate to comment on a sensitive thread like this but I just want to bring some perspective which older people, who seem to be the majority of commenters on this thread, might not understand about the younger generation. Do you realize what it’s like growing up realizing that the world is going to shit? Being born into a world, with no say in the matter, which is corrupt, evil, and probably won’t exist as we know it in the next 30-50 years due to climate change (whether you believe it exists or not  is a different topic but let’s assume that it will fundamentally change our world). And we’ve realized this from such a young age, being robbed of all hope for the future. The only control we have in our lives is being able to go out on our own terms, and for us, there is no glorified future to look forward to, there is only the here and now. It’s infuriating to me how you can talk about the beauty the future holds when you haven’t even considered the fact that maybe for us, there is no future to look forward to, that the future for us only holds more suffering. As Daniel said, watching old people waste away, having no ability to live under their own power has only increased my desire to die (relatively) young  

It’s equally infuriating for me to see people attacking the experience and motivations of someone without even knowing them personally. Maybe just consider the fact that someone’s motivations for soloing isn’t some simplified reason like “they thought it was cool cause they saw it on social media”, but consider the fact that they came to the serious conclusion to put their life on the line the same way you come to any serious conclusion; through careful thought and deliberation. Each of our unique experience in life shape our motivations and who we are as people, and projecting your personal experiences onto someone else seems to me to be just as selfish as whatever you think Nathaniel’s decision making to be. I don’t solo regularly, I was scared away from it after spraining my ankle on a highball, but I respect someone’s decision to solo because it’s what brings them fulfillment in life, and its ludicrous for me to feel so entitled as to try to tell someone how to live their life, no less attacking them on an online forum at a very sensitive time. 

In conclusion, before you start attacking someone’s character perhaps consider their very personal motivations and experiences in life which led them to pursue their dreams. You might think that soloing is selfish, dangerous, stupid, and you’re totally justified to have those opinions, but to  attack a deceased person and their loved ones is maybe something you want to rethink. I’m probably just being trolled and you fucks think that a fun way to spend time is to stir shit on a thread about a real person who passed but for people who are genuine in their responses I just wanted to help you understand the perspective of the younger generation and that you can’t go around projecting your own life experiences on people thinking that they have the exact same experiences and thought process as you do. At the end of the day, respect people’s choices, it’s all we have to maintain some semblance of control of our chaotic lives, no matter how selfish you think it is. We’re all selfish, pretending you’re not because you climb with a rope is hubris. And maybe don’t attack someone’s character without getting to know them personally and understanding their deep motivations for something. 

Tyler Twrote:

...I just want to bring some perspective which older people, who seem to be the majority of commenters on this thread, might not understand about the younger generation. Do you realize what it’s like growing up realizing that the world is going to shit?

Of course we do. We lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, the Watts riots, Kent State, the Cold War, rivers so polluted that they literally catch fire...the list goes on. Every generation faces its horrors. Not to minimize in any way what you're feeling, but just to point out that many of us old farts have felt that way too. Just know your generation is not alone in feeling those things.

Tyler Twrote:

I hesitate to comment on a sensitive thread like this but I just want to bring some perspective which older people, who seem to be the majority of commenters on this thread, might not understand about the younger generation. Do you realize what it’s like growing up realizing that the world is going to shit? Being born into a world, with no say in the matter, which is corrupt, evil, and probably won’t exist as we know it in the next 30-50 years due to climate change (whether you believe it exists or not  is a different topic but let’s assume that it will fundamentally change our world). And we’ve realized this from such a young age, being robbed of all hope for the future. The only control we have in our lives is being able to go out on our own terms, and for us, there is no glorified future to look forward to, there is only the here and now. It’s infuriating to me how you can talk about the beauty the future holds when you haven’t even considered the fact that maybe for us, there is no future to look forward to, that the future for us only holds more suffering. As Daniel said, watching old people waste away, having no ability to live under their own power has only increased my desire to die (relatively) young  

It’s equally infuriating for me to see people attacking the experience and motivations of someone without even knowing them personally. Maybe just consider the fact that someone’s motivations for soloing isn’t some simplified reason like “they thought it was cool cause they saw it on social media”, but consider the fact that they came to the serious conclusion to put their life on the line the same way you come to any serious conclusion; through careful thought and deliberation. Each of our unique experience in life shape our motivations and who we are as people, and projecting your personal experiences onto someone else seems to me to be just as selfish as whatever you think Nathaniel’s decision making to be. I don’t solo regularly, I was scared away from it after spraining my ankle on a highball, but I respect someone’s decision to solo because it’s what brings them fulfillment in life, and its ludicrous for me to feel so entitled as to try to tell someone how to live their life, no less attacking them on an online forum at a very sensitive time. 

In conclusion, before you start attacking someone’s character perhaps consider their very personal motivations and experiences in life which led them to pursue their dreams. You might think that soloing is selfish, dangerous, stupid, and you’re totally justified to have those opinions, but to  attack a deceased person and their loved ones is maybe something you want to rethink. I’m probably just being trolled and you fucks think that a fun way to spend time is to stir shit on a thread about a real person who passed but for people who are genuine in their responses I just wanted to help you understand the perspective of the younger generation and that you can’t go around projecting your own life experiences on people thinking that they have the exact same experiences and thought process as you do. At the end of the day, respect people’s choices, it’s all we have to maintain some semblance of control of our chaotic lives, no matter how selfish you think it is. We’re all selfish, pretending you’re not because you climb with a rope is hubris. And maybe don’t attack someone’s character without getting to know them personally and understanding their deep motivations for something. 

Every generation has their “crisis”, this has nothing to do with that. 

Motivations for free soloing are certainly mixed and vary widely but the motivations don’t matter, it’s the outcome.

There has been a severe uptick in soloist accidents and deaths and I expect that trend to continue, blame whomever or whatever you want.

Regardless, if you’re going to free solo do it for the “right” reasons and do your homework and legwork first.

-Know your route, hopefully you climbed it before, or at least take a topo.

-Consider the weather, sun can change the nature of a route. Wind is a major factor.

-The grade should be well below your onsight outdoor ability.

-Consider the rock quality, some rock just isn’t great for soloing.

-Contemplate every move, take your time, DONT get in a zone, stay present to the climbing and nothing else.

-Above all, if you’re not feeling it don’t do it.

Lastly, experience keeps you save, acquire it deliberately and slowly, preferably while on rope in case you make a mistake.

*How many actual soloists are there in this thread? 

Tyler Twrote:

 At the end of the day, respect people’s choices, it’s all we have to maintain some semblance of control of our chaotic lives, no matter how selfish you think it is. We’re all selfish, pretending you’re not because you climb with a rope is hubris. And maybe don’t attack someone’s character without getting to know them personally and understanding their deep motivations for something. 

Yes, Tyler, but people also make terrible choices that put themselves at great risk out of proportion to the benefit sometimes. Do we make healthy, affirming choices when stressed/depressed or do we hit the bottle or needle? Look at Honnold who impetuously soloed after a bad break-up and nearly got killed. Bad choice and to be condemned. Any real friend that knew what he was up to would have urged him to make a better and more calculated decision later when his head was clearer (and he then would have realized that trying to beat a snowstorm to the summit was a horrible idea, like he did later).

We support your choices when they are sound or condemn them when they put you at unnecessary risk. That's what we all should do for our less experienced or at risk friends. Love can mean saying no. We can support you and not enable bad choices too.

Tyler Twrote:

I hesitate to comment on a sensitive thread like this but I just want to bring some perspective which older people, who seem to be the majority of commenters on this thread, might not understand about the younger generation. Do you realize what it’s like growing up realizing that the world is going to shit? 

It really is, thanks for saying so.  Im GenX, and I diverge from the others here Boomer-splaining how it has always been this way.

Environmental and species collapse is real.  Putin will start throwing tactical nukes soon enough.

All I can say re solo-ing is enjoy your time now, like you say. Time is running out.

Soloing can be thought of as training for situations in the mountains or on long climbs where the increased speed to safe ground can alleviate the risk of hypothermia, rockfall, avalanche, or just a hellish bivi. In that sense soloing could save your life, where fumbling with anchors, ropes and gear could endanger it. Runouts can achieve the same mental training to a lesser degree.

I soloed a fair amount, soloed the White Maiden at Tahquitz when I was 14, did the first solos of Double Cross, Dogleg, and The Orphan well before soloing in Josh got popular. Those were spontaneous, a simple product of having no partner and an overdose of psyche. I soloed some easy 5.10 stuff, but for no particular reason didn’t push it any further.

I would advise aspiring soloists to solo at a rating at least 3 number grades below your lead limit, especially on an unfamiliar route. Getting a route wired makes a difference, obviously, but question your motives. Depression, peer group pressure, desire for notoriety in social media are some of the most obvious red flags.

Soloing can be lots of fun and a transformative experience - the lack of rope, gear and harness, combined with the solitude can create an unparalleled focus on just climbing. That focus wouldn’t be the same if it wasn’t so unforgiving to a mistake.

Tyler and djkyote. I’m a millennial and that’s bullshit. It’s naïve and ignorant.

I want to post a knife picture on this so bad, but I won't.  Carry on.