Suggestions for softish downturned shoes that don't crush the life out of my big toe?

I've been struggling to find downturned shoes with toe rubber and a decent heel that aren't extremely uncomfortable for my big toe. I usually wear Sportiva but shoes like the Solution and Skwama put a sharp downward bend my big toe at the interphalangeal joint, which is painful. It's a big contrast from my favorite shoes of all time: a very downsized Katana Laces. In spite of also being pretty downturned, these don't hurt at all. I guess they spread the bend across the interphalangeal & metacarpophalangeal joints.   

Comparing the two shoes, I think the height of the toe box is what accounts for this. What's a bouldering-oriented shoe (i.e. with a softer rubber & toe patch) that has a low-profile (in terms of height) toebox whilst still being downturned?

What other brands did you try?
I find that Evolv Shamans are less painful on my big toe that Solutions. Perhaps something like Phantoms would work for you since you desire a softish shoe?

Good luck, and if you find something I'd love to know as well!

I've recently started up-sizing my shoes pretty aggressively and while performance does suffer slightly for small edges, it's mostly fine on the steep stuff. I find that if I bring two shoes, e.g. your down-sized Katana and an up-sized Solution, it covers most bases from tiny edges on hopefully vertical rock (Katana) to steep toe-hooking (Solutions). The key is that the shoe has to be pretty asymmetric, so that it's still somewhat tight on your non-big toes. I agree that the high-volume of most bouldering shoes is a problem, but I've just kind of been ignoring it and it's been mostly fine. For me the best shoe I've found is a La Sportiva Python at 1.5 EU sizes larger than my single-pitch-performance-sized Katakis. The toe patch is a little floppy over my toe knuckles while my toes are only semi down-turned, but even so it's still way better for toe-hooking than, say, my Katakis. I do the same up-sizing with Solutions as well (1 EU size larger than my Katakis), but those I find are slightly more painful on the toe knuckle due to the stiffer upper. The main benefits of the Solutions over the Pythons are (1) edging and (2) pulling, since the Solution is much stiffer than the Python if I do need both steep climbing and edging, Solutions are the answer. But, more often the reason I pull them out is if I need to pulling in to the wall on an incut foot, the biggest example of this is on the Tension board, where the climbing is steep, the holds are incut, and there's no friction, in this scenario the Python doesn't excel since it's sole is flat and skates right off the holds, unlike the contoured sole of the Solution. That said for most overhanging climbing or anything smeary, the Python is preferred.

Thanks, Dan! That's helpful. I've tried the sizing-up thing with the Solutions; the rest of the fit gets completely fucked lol. I've long suspected pythons are the answer but I feel like they can only be purchased from EU websites and I'm worried about not getting the right size. Maybe worth the risk.

If you're not totally stuck on La Sportiva, the Scarpa Drago is great.  I would say its definitely a soft shoe though, not soft-ish.  The toe box is lower profile than the Instincts, but I can't compare it to any La Sportiva shoes

amariuswrote:

What other brands did you try?
I find that Evolv Shamans are less painful on my big toe that Solutions. Perhaps something like Phantoms would work for you since you desire a softish shoe?

Agree with the Evolv suggestion. The "love bump" shoes do a nice job curving your toe gradually around a curved midsole, rather than cramming them at the end of the shoe with a sharp toe bend. Allows you to still have a snug downturned shoe, without the harsh toe bend.

Shamans are pretty stiff, so wouldn't reccomend those necessarily (though despite their stiffness, still a good steep climbing shoe).  Check out the Phantom and the Phantom LV. The LV is softer than the regular Phantom. 

Soft/Soft-ish is all good. I have an edging shoe already anyway. I just need something that allows me to articulate my toes a little more than the with the katana which turns my feet into hooves. 

Big fan of Futuras and Pythons, which share the same last. Both those are much softer in every way than Solutions, which fit me so-so.

My toes formed pretty big callouses at the interphalangeal joint, and I remember that point hurting a lot when I first got aggressive shoes. Are you experiencing joint pain, bone pain, skin pain?

Caleb Mattsonwrote:

If you're not totally stuck on La Sportiva, the Scarpa Drago is great.  I would say its definitely a soft shoe though, not soft-ish.  The toe box is lower profile than the Instincts, but I can't compare it to any La Sportiva shoes

Fwiw I tried the Drago in the same size as the Pythons I currently wear, and found it more painful on my big toe. Maybe a larger size would've worked, but I think the shape is also just worse for my particular foot. Super nice shoe though, highly recommended for people with un-fucked feet. 

Dan Gwrote:

Fwiw I tried the Drago in the same size as the Pythons I currently wear, and found it more painful on my big toe. Maybe a larger size would've worked, but I think the shape is also just worse for my particular foot. Super nice shoe though, highly recommended for people with un-fucked feet. 

You need to size up from La Sportiva to Scarpa. I wear almost a full euro size larger in Scarpa than Sportiva most of the time! If sized correctly your big toe won’t be jammed in there so badly and it might make a substantial difference. The Python especially is a baggy shoe that needs to be sized down a lot. 

thanks for the input everyone. i look forward to emptying my bank account on a pair of dragos :(

seriously though - what about some of the cheaper shoe companies? anyone know if some of the unparallel shoes have a low profile big toe? evolv zenist? 

Try the La Sportiva Theory

Give the 5.10 hiangles a try if you can find them. (yeah everybody hates 5.10 I know they suck) but damn the hiangle comfortable and just glued to the rock. 

if you order online it should be 1/2 size down from street. 

have you tried a $20 Shoe stretcher? The plastic bumps for your toes stretch it out PERFECT.  just search Amazon or wherever, thank me later.  

Frozen ziploc bag ususally make room's for my toe 

Ben - my mind is blown

Hello,

I have found Tenaya shoes to be aggressive enough, yet comfortable. They stretch out a bit. Specifically the Oasi.

Thank you 

Try Scarpa. Instinct VS, either the stiffer orange or softer Blue are awesome. Don't need to size way down either. Maybe one size compared to Sportiva where you probably are going multiple. Also Unparallel shoes may do the trick and have many options. Same thing with sizing don't need to go way down half to full maybe in my experience. From your initial post you seem to have good luck with higher volume sportiva and I've had a similar experience with other models just cannot make them work. Scarpa has been the most comfy out of box for me and still performed great. But as an old 5.10 lover the unparallel are right there after a short break in.

Read Januskiewieczwrote:

Try Scarpa. Instinct VS, either the stiffer orange or softer Blue are awesome. Don't need to size way down either. Maybe one size compared to Sportiva where you probably are going multiple. Also Unparallel shoes may do the trick and have many options. Same thing with sizing don't need to go way down half to full maybe in my experience. From your initial post you seem to have good luck with higher volume sportiva and I've had a similar experience with other models just cannot make them work. Scarpa has been the most comfy out of box for me and still performed great. But as an old 5.10 lover the unparallel are right there after a short break in.

Another vote for the Instinct toe box. Anything in the Instinct line up seems to work for my (sometimes angry) big toe. The Magos might deserve a look as well. 

chiming in for Drago and Instinct VSR at street shoe size or .5 down euro, and brainstorming a bit - La Sportiva Mantra in size down .5 euro from street ( I tried them on and they are really cool, haven’t climbed in them)

Old thread but for other people searching from the future... I couldn't find any downturned shoes that didn't put an excruciating amount of pressure on my big toes. TC Pros work great for me but bouldering in them is less fun than it could be. Tried loads of downturned shoes and Solutions fit best overall but when standing on a foothold it still hurt really bad in one spot on my big toes. So I tried a bunion stretcher that lets you expand one small spot on a shoe and it makes Solutions fit perfectly. Right after removing the bunion stretcher the shoe stretches maybe 1/2" out in the spot, but after a little time it shrinks back to just a couple of millimeters of extra space. Doesn't change fit at all in the rest of the shoe. I still have some pressure in that spot on my big toes and I don't want to leave the shoes on all day but I am happy to climb a whole pitch in them.

https://www.amazon.com/FootFitter-Bunion-Stretcher-Stretching-Device/dp/B08V5918M9/