Should old school grades be regraded to modern grades?

Connor Dobson wrote:

That Jtree 5.7 is Seneca 5.4, just saying

That Senca 5.4 would just be 3rd class at my super secret crag. 

Connor Dobsonwrote:

That Jtree 5.7 is Seneca 5.4, just saying

Does that make a 5.12 at Seneca the world's hardest trad route?

Always thought that place looked rad. Will probably never find myself in W. Virginia, though. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

Does that make a 5.12 at Seneca the world's hardest trad route?

Always thought that place looked rad. Will probably never find myself in W. Virginia, though.

But why though?

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

But why though?

Andrew Ricewrote:

View from my front porch. 2,500 miles West of West Virginia. 

That’s a bummer, good thing these things fly east   

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

That’s a bummer, good thing these things fly east   

I ride those all the time. In fact was just in NY. But as much as Seneca rocks looks amazing, I just don't see making it a destination trip from CA. With all due respect. 

Andrew Rice wrote:

I ride those all the time. In fact was just in NY. But as much as Seneca rocks looks amazing, I just don't see making it a destination trip from CA. With all due respect. 

You do you Andrew enjoy Cali sounds like you're in the right spot. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

Does that make a 5.12 at Seneca the world's hardest trad route?

Always thought that place looked rad. Will probably never find myself in W. Virginia, though. 

Seneca’s reputation kind of annoys me. In the early 90s I was stationed at Ft. Lee and made relatively frequent trips out there. I was a fairly new climber then, and considered routes such as Rewritten and Bastile Crack in Eldo relatively serious endeavors. The Owl in Boulder Canyon gave me the fits. My first day at Seneca I went up P.O. with no issues and followed that up with Ecstasy, Soler, Triple S, and some single pitch stuff from 5.9 to 5.10. Really, I found Seneca much less stressful than Eldo and the Boulder Canyon trad stuff. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

I ride those all the time. In fact was just in NY. But as much as Seneca rocks looks amazing, I just don't see making it a destination trip from CA. With all due respect. 

I don't blame ya there...the NRG is, however, a destination

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

If people cannot intellectually wrap their mind how either retro upgrading sandbagged routes or downgrading new school routes is the same thing, there is no helping you. 

T-Pup….this isn’t your first rodeo, we are way past talking about the original post. Do better.

I feel like the better way to solve this problem is just telling people that they are too weak for the climb.

Hank Hudleywrote:

I feel like the better way to solve this problem is just telling people that they are too weak for the climb.

Idk man, people getting mad over names of rocks. I’m not sure how receptive they’ll be to someone telling them 5.10 isn’t hard and that they need to get stronger…

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

Idk man, people getting mad over names of rocks. I’m not sure how receptive they’ll be to someone telling them 5.10 isn’t hard and that they need to get stronger…

Didn’t we previously establish in this thread that anything less than .11- is just technical hiking?

Hank Hudleywrote:

I feel like the better way to solve this problem is just telling people that they are too weak for the climb.

True. But with all the disparity in grades how will we know what climbs we are too weak for? Am I too weak for 5.11 Red Rock or for 5.9 J-tree? 

Frank Steinwrote:

Didn’t we previously establish in this thread that anything less than .11- is just technical hiking?

I thought it was 5.10, but might as well make it 5.11. Gumbies wearing socks and evolv rental shoes with colored soles can climb 5.10 these days

Andrew Ricewrote:

True. But with all the disparity in grades how will we know what climbs we are too weak for? Am I too weak for 5.11 Red Rock or for 5.9 J-tree? 

Not sure, but they’re the same thing basically. 

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

I thought it was 5.10, but might as well make it 5.11. Gumbies wearing socks and evolv rental shoes with colored soles can climb 5.10 these days

Shoot, you could say the same about 5.12d. Might as well start the scale at 5.13a. No wait, at this point, might as well bring back the B1-B3 grades, where B1 = a route that is commonly repeated, B2 = has been repeated two or more times but it's not commonly done; and B3 = only one person has ever climbed it.

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

Idk man, people getting mad over names of rocks. I’m not sure how receptive they’ll be to someone telling them 5.10 isn’t hard and that they need to get stronger…

I tried that approach last year with the GF.... Sure was glad we had bought a comfy couch. 

This has been done before.  In guidebooks, it is even listed as V9. Midnight Lightning was the original benchmark of V7.  Midnight Lightning seems more consistent with other problems in the 8/9 range based on the evolution and use of the V grading system.  Recalibrating from time to time fits the goal of giving a sense of difficulty.