Logan Canyon Rebolting (Fucoidal)

Looks like there is a rebolting effort going on at fucoidal. New bolts on mission statement, and several new holes on limestone cowboy. I'm not very knowledgeable about bolting but some of the new holes on limestone cowboy seemed to be in interesting places and there is a hole between the current 2nd and 3rd bolt (located in the easy 5th terrain). A prominent Logan climber was there and was not very pleased about this rebolting and had no idea who was doing it. I would urge whoever is doing this to get in contact with some of the locals and talk with them before altering any climbs. If you were to go to Elevation and ask there I'm sure you could get in contact with Matt or Brian who are well versed in the Logan climbing scene and could offer some advice. 

Are you saying there are new holes or new bolts on that route? Or potentially they removed old bolts but didn’t patch the holes?

A few of us in Ogden are working on bolt replacement for Northern Utah but we haven’t done any work in Logan yet. If you could pm me with good contacts up there I’d be stoked to link up with them and get things done right. 

Cody Leewrote:

Are you saying there are new holes or new bolts on that route? Or potentially they removed old bolts but didn’t patch the holes?

A few of us in Ogden are working on bolt replacement for Northern Utah but we haven’t done any work in Logan yet. If you could pm me with good contacts up there I’d be stoked to link up with them and get things done right. 

There are new holes that have been drilled within the last twoish weeks, definitely not old bolt holes. I assume they drilled them and just haven't gotten around to installing the bolts yet. I personally don't have the contact of any of the people that you should link up with but if you were to contact Elevation the local climbing gym they surely could put you in contact with the right people. Thank you for doing the bolt replacement work, if you do any this fall in Logan feel free to hit me up if you need a hand!

There's a new 12 to the right of Limestone that someone posted could it be that person?

Jordan Wilsonwrote:

There's a new 12 to the right of Limestone that someone posted could it be that person?

Looks like you’re right, their ticks mention rebolting the 11. Thanks Jordan!

What bolts are they using to replace the old ones?  Looks like they are not going hole of hole with the lack of sleeves and cones not shown.

Jordan Wilsonwrote:

There's a new 12 to the right of Limestone that someone posted could it be that person?

I'd happen to see the person bolting that line on 9/16. It was two fellas, one had rebolted the 11 and the other bolted the new 12. I remember one saying he was from Boise?(somewhere in Idaho) During our conversation I did mention that the anchors on Adios where quite rusty and if they had time, they should check it out. But they did not mention they were gonna work on Limestone Cowboy, but I hope it wasn't them drilling them holes.

It's the same person that bolted the new line. Biggest issue I have is that they are moving bolts around to accommodate ways around cruxes and adding additional bolts in un-needed places on existing routes. New hardware is great but needs to be done correctly. There are 3 of us in Logan who have tool kits to reuse existing holes.  A couple of us are going to go out with them this week and have a conversation about how to do things right.

Circusboywrote:

It's the same person that bolted the new line. Biggest issue I have is that they are moving bolts around to accommodate ways around cruxes and adding additional bolts in un-needed places on existing routes. New hardware is great but needs to be done correctly. There are 3 of us in Logan who have tool kits to reuse existing holes.  A couple of us are going to go out with them this week and have a conversation about how to do things right.

I appreciate that you and your crew may be local. And that you may want to take initiative to improve your local crags. But I sure hope you are not trying force the dogma that every hole has to be reused. There are so many rock climbs that are from the older generation, even some new ones, that have had bolts placed in terrible spots, and some in bad rock, or rock that can no longer be deemed worthy. It is good to attempt hole for hole, but not always the answer. Also, the person you are referring to who put up Beef Dinno, has a long history, many years of which, of updating bad hardware, some of which were hole for hole, and improving crags that have been neglected. His knowledge of climbing movement and quality of rock is far superior to many that Ive climbed with and developed with over the years. And although you may not see his contributions all over Mountain Project, like alot of the fame hungry and ego maniacs, I'm highly confident that he would not place any bolts to avoid cruxes or difficult sections of rock, and that if he was ever to rebolt a route, it would only be because it needed it. How long have the routes up there needed updates???  I hope that nobody up there has any intentions of fouling his reputation out of jealousy or territorial aggression. If a crag is in need of updating, and someone is trying to, out of their own financial and laborious generosity, and you plan to help or better the community, and disagree with what they are doing, I suggest you take the more respectable, higher road, and try to meet with them before participating in a public shaming.

I, for one, don't need or want anyone to "optimize" any of my routes. One-for-bolt replacement, i.e. maintenance, is a good thing. You don't like the "optimizing" I did when the route went up - go somewhere else and put up your own optimization realized. Leave mine alone.

If you bolt an X rated ground fall route what is the point in putting a bolt on it in the first place? Why not just Solo the route and call it an 80’ highball. 

Adam Grant wrote:

If you bolt an X rated ground fall route what is the point in putting a bolt on it in the first place? Why not just Solo the route and call it an 80’ highball. 

Lots of variables here, is it an unprotected 5.5 section followed by protected 5.12?

Also my bad if I participated in a witch hunt, I was mostly hoping to just help people find other people who need to talk to each other. 

I’m way off topic with my question it is more of a thought I had and just curious what people think. Not related to the route in question.    

X rated to me means moves at the grade that result in a ground fall.  So making 5.12 moves in ground fall zone on a 5.12 rated route. 

ADAM GRANT wrote:

I’m way off topic with my question it is more of a thought I had and just curious what people think. Not related to the route in question.    

X rated to me means moves at the grade that result in a ground fall.  So making 5.12 moves in ground fall zone on a 5.12 rated route. 

A lot of routes have sections that are 30-40 feet of easier terrain, kinda like the new one at fucoidal, so running it out that much isn't a big deal to some climbers who are solid at the runout grade.  That's not to say there aren't consistent climbs with 1-3 bolts making them x rated with consistent climbing.  But you'll run into a lot of routes where it is run out on easy terrain where a fall would be bad, but then the crux at the harder section of the climb is well protected.