[REDACTED] Argument - 5.7+ (Wild River Crag, CO)

It’s CB! Get him!!

Yoda Jedi Knightwrote:

I'm a Trev fan. I hope he comes back.

People who call him a troll are too dense to understand the nuances of a troll. Dudes alright in my book. A real troll would never get that worked up. Probably a better dude than all of his critics. 

John Texwrote:

People who call him a troll are too dense to understand the nuances of a troll. Dudes alright in my book. A real troll would never get that worked up. Probably a better dude than all of his critics. 

please explain the "nuances" of trolling sir, help us understand

clee 03mwrote:

I know a rock climber who called the police when her boyfriend was banging her head on the ground hard enough to give her a concussion. She tried to fend him off which caused a scratch on his neck. Police took her to jail for assault. They handcuffed her to a chair until she pissed on herself while she had a concussion. When I looked into cases like this after hearing about this, many women say police often will say the women is the one who is being violent when they call police for domestic violence help. Sounds like that happened to Gabby and she eventually paid for that with her life.  It definitely made me think I need to think twice before I call the police if I am ever a victim of domestic violence. I am grateful to say my friend and rock climbing partner did survive and didn’t get killed. But can you imagine her thinking about going to this crag and reading this description?  Shame on all of you who are defending this. MP can be a really disappointing place. 

That is terrible - I am so sorry this happened to your friend. With Gabby, it sounds like the police bought into the gaslighting by her boyfriend when they were called out and believed his story about the scratches. They had an opportunity to help her but missed all the signs of the abusive relationship. Maybe the route description should read ‘Gabby’s case was famous for getting the American public and news media to focus on intimate partner violence - for about 5 minutes before moving on to the next shiny tragedy.’

The cops handling of that was terrible. They were called because a waitress saw him hit her and left telling her that she'd be in big trouble if she didn't do what he said. Or something. But they had a chance to intervene proactively and instead palled around with him. 

One year now.

petitojoseph

I want to thank everyone for the love and support you have shown our families. It’s because of all of you we were able to bring #Gabbypetito home. Today is particularly hard for us but if you can, please take a moment and share a #missingpersons story to help bring them home safe. Every story deserves the same attention. And yes I shared this picture because the @nyjets won yesterday. #togetherwecan

https://www.instagram.com/p/CisH8dhOjG7/?hl=en

John Tex wrote:

People who call him a troll are too dense to understand the nuances of a troll. Dudes alright in my book. A real troll would never get that worked up. Probably a better dude than all of his critics. 

He looks to be more of narcissist  then a troll.  Once you overlook that fact he's not that bad of a guy.

Wonder how many reports have been filed and dismissed by MP moderators(in regards to the route not Trevor). 

Trevor is like your 13 year old nephew that tags along on the weekends. His posts are noise that have no meaning. 

John Texwrote:

People who call him a troll are too dense to understand the nuances of a troll. Dudes alright in my book. A real troll would never get that worked up. Probably a better dude than all of his critics. 

I agree, trolling is baiting for responses. He’s just a bit of a nutter. I have no idea how people get so worked up over his asanine ideas lol, they are kind of funny or kind of obnoxious. Plenty of actual D bags on this site to direct your ire to (like me).

So, the way Admins work on this site is; 

When a route, area, photo, comment or page improvement is submitted, it goes into a list of things which need approval. Area admins go down the list and try their best to make sure the content is correct, and in some cases appropriate. Contacting the person who submitted the content is sometimes necessary and can take days or even weeks to sort out whatever issue the content may have. In an area like Colorado, where there can be thousands of submissions waiting for approval, this can be incredibly difficult and take weeks, months and in some cases a year before things get approved. In the meantime, the submission is still posted and visible on the site before this approval/denial process takes place. So, things are visible to the public while things are being sorted out. Comments in the route section, emails and even forum posts can be very helpful to speed things along as well as, “get things right”. They are very much appreciated, but can take time to implement.  

Not saying this is the case we have here, but with the thousands of submissions waiting review, things do get overlooked. That’s where the “community” comes in.
The review process can be tedious. Climbing has a long tradition of distasteful humor, rowdy behavior and rebellion. As a result, knowing the difference between passively offensive and downright hurtful can not always be so black and white. We don’t always get it right. (Look to the “redacted” kerfuffle we had here, which is still ongoing).

In this particular case, the use of someone’s personal name in a negative or slanderous way is definite and clear grounds for disapproval IMO. Even borderline  defamation of character regardless of your opinion of their character is not something that we should tolerate. There are other distasteful undertones to the name, but those are but a side note to this glaring and obvious one.
I do not have admin privileges in Colorado, but I would support changing the name to “The Last Argument”. 

Salamanizer Skiwrote:

So, the way Admins work on this site is; 

When a route, area, photo, comment or page improvement is submitted, it goes into a list of things which need approval. Area admins go down the list and try their best to make sure the content is correct, and in some cases appropriate. Contacting the person who submitted the content is sometimes necessary and can take days or even weeks to sort out whatever issue the content may have. In an area like Colorado, where there can be thousands of submissions waiting for approval, this can be incredibly difficult and take weeks, months and in some cases a year before things get approved. In the meantime, the submission is still posted and visible on the site before this approval/denial process takes place. So, things are visible to the public while things are being sorted out. Comments in the route section, emails and even forum posts can be very helpful to speed things along as well as, “get things right”. They are very much appreciated, but can take time to implement.  

Not saying this is the case we have here, but with the thousands of submissions waiting review, things do get overlooked. That’s where the “community” comes in.
The review process can be tedious. Climbing has a long tradition of distasteful humor, rowdy behavior and rebellion. As a result, knowing the difference between passively offensive and downright hurtful can not always be so black and white. We don’t always get it right. (Look to the “redacted” kerfuffle we had here, which is still ongoing).

In this particular case, the use of someone’s personal name in a negative or slanderous way is definite and clear grounds for disapproval IMO. Even borderline  defamation of character regardless of your opinion of their character is not something that we should tolerate. There are other distasteful undertones to the name, but those are but a side note to this glaring and obvious one.
I do not have admin privileges in Colorado, but I would support changing the name to “The Last Argument”. 

Thank you for the response.

The issue here is not the lack of response due to the backlog, it is that changes that were submitted were rejected by at least two different users.

My suggestion:

The crux is above the fourth bolt. A fall at the crux, with rope stretch, could be a ledgefall. Gabby was a victim of domestic abuse and murder. The name of this route trivializes her death to be edgy and juvenile, and it works!

The response:

Again, I think I get your point of view on this. Obviously, I wasn't there. I don't think I have the insight or privilege to change it to your suggestion.

But this is not factual. You don't need to be there to read the news, and of course an admin has the ability to change a description and title. It is a privilege that comes with being an admin.

The route name has now been redacted. Thanks to petzl logic for bringing it up. This is by far the most disgusting route name that I've ever come across and should not be tolerated. 

This is an important discussion and we appreciate your thoughtful consideration and input. We have considered the points made here and decided to redact the route in question. We have reached out to the FA to invite a revision or replacement that is in line with our Terms of Service and the Climb United Principles for Publishing Climbing Route Names. The route description has also been edited to reflect the beta for the route.

Our goal is to review and evaluate all flagged route names holistically using the available context. This context can include, but is not limited to, rationale provided by the FA, the surrounding area, community input in the form of flags, comments, posts, direct messages or emails, the Climb United Principles, and our Terms of Service. Flagged route names that are pending review may not yet meet community standards. Background information on these reviews can be found here and more details will be shared soon.

To date, regional admins have been asked to refrain from making changes to route names unless requested by the FA, including redactions. Route descriptions and any edits to them are reviewed by regional admins, who make their best effort to consider the accuracy, appropriateness, and overall value of that content for the greater community. We would like to provide our admins with additional guidelines as they are asked by MP users to resolve controversies like this.

The title of this thread is kinda awkward now….

Yoda Jedi Knightwrote:

I'm a Trev fan. I hope he comes back.

Trevor is obviously intelligent. He goes out of his way to speak in a way that causes some people to use their brain. Whether you agree with him or not is irrelevant.

 For the typical person, this pisses them off, it makes them feel stupid. So, they subliminally retaliate to the self-prescribed inferiority, calling trevor stupid because he made them feel stupid without even trying. 

Jordan Wilson wrote:

I agree with this notion.  Its a heavy topic that has been resolved no need to muddy it and take away from the learnings.

At the very least, the title should be changed (and probably never been named this) as that was an issue people had with the route…not exactly redacted or renamed if its the title of a thread that’s now 7 pages long…

Go Back to Super Topowrote:

At the very least, the title should be changed (and probably never been named this) as that was an issue people had with the route…not exactly redacted or renamed if its the title of a thread that’s now 7 pages long…

It was the most accurate way to point out the problem with the route name.

I'll edit the title if I am able and leave it open to Mountain Project to lock it if they think that is the best course.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful replies.

petzl logicwrote:

It was the most accurate way to point out the problem with the route name.

I'll edit the title if I am able and leave it open to Mountain Project to lock it if they think that is the best course.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful replies.

In the future I would just title it “concerning route name” and then link the route in the first post with a description of your issue like you did. Otherwise it seems weird to include the title that people are offended by as the title.…that’s just me though.

Also, how in the world did you come across such an obscure route? Lol