[REDACTED] Argument - 5.7+ (Wild River Crag, CO)

I would have liked to give the fa troll credit and think that maybe they created the route name before all of the facts had come to light but see that it was first put up only a few months ago. Obviously the name is a childish attempt to get a rise out of people from a troll and regret giving them any of the attention they crave. 

The route description goes like this:

The crux is above the fourth bolt. A fall at the crux, with rope stretch, could be a ledgefall. Gabby was famous the summer of 2021 for getting in arguments with her boyfriend and attacking him with her fingernails. He snapped and killed her.

I have suggested including the line Gabby was a victim of domestic abuse and murder instead of the last part of what is there but was rejected by a Mountain Project admin, saying:

I think I get your point of view on this. Obviously, I wasn't there. I don't think I have the insight or privilege to change it to your suggestion.

In any case, I think trivializing her death is disrespectful and lacks humour. Can anyone come up with a better suggestion that could be approved or should this just be redacted? Personally, I don't think installing a few bolts and an anchor doesn't give you special rights to be a dick, but obviously this guy, Charlie Barrett, and others have felt differently.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/122870421/gabby-petitos-last-argument

I think comparing a guy with a distasteful sense of humor and someone accused of multiple sexual assaults is a false equivalence. Maybe you could just stay off the route-description page and not climb it? Virtually everything is going to offend someone.

It’s a free country. I freely judge the FAist is likely a dick bag.

Marc Hwrote:

I think comparing a guy with a distasteful sense of humor and someone accused of multiple sexual assaults is a false equivalence. Maybe you could just stay off the route-description page and not climb it? Virtually everything is going to offend someone.

I'm sorry but I think the same culture that doesn't call out nonsense like this is the other side of the coin of the people that knew that Charlie was bad news and instead said he was a nice guy with some baggage or now blame his victims so I have no problem lumping them in together. And at the very least, what business does trivializing someones murder and distorting the details have in a route description?

Stating that "virtually everything is going to offend someone" because a few offending items can be found is an exaggeration, but more importantly, why should people have to ignore a wrong that can easily be changed?

Colonel Mustardwrote:

It’s a free country. I freely judge the FAist is likely a dick bag.

Word.

This is a route that should be chopped

Lol. Jim Beyer...

petzl logicwrote:

Stating that "virtually everything is going to offend someone" because a few offending items can be found is an exaggeration, but more importantly, why should people have to ignore a wrong that can easily be changed?

It’s not your route and it’s not your route-description page. I agree the whole thing is abhorrent; I’m certainly not going to climb it and I have zero respect for Jim Beyer. But I also think cancel culture sucks and what you’re doing is trying to get a route—or route description—cancelled. I don’t understand why people feel the need to cancel things they don’t like and can’t just leave them alone. You’re literally drawing more attention to it.

What’s in a Name by Dave Chappelle

This is a perfect example of the posturing of the internet. You know who put up the route, you could have a literal conversation with the person or at least try. Instead you wanna fire up a mob to have some drama over a route few will climb.

I simply can’t wrap my mind around how having a conversation with an adult is secondary to a mob of internet strangers. Or even attempting to get a mob or internet strangers. It’s a rock in the woods someone gave a dumb name.

Oh I don't like! I'm offended! Cancel cancel! Or just move on with my day and mind my own business...

petzl logicwrote:

I would have liked to give the fa troll credit and think that maybe they created the route name before all of the facts had come to light but see that it was first put up only a few months ago. Obviously the name is a childish attempt to get a rise out of people from a troll and regret giving them any of the attention they crave. 

The route description goes like this:

I have suggested including the line Gabby was a victim of domestic abuse and murder instead of the last part of what is there but was rejected by a Mountain Project admin, saying:

In any case, I think trivializing her death is disrespectful and lacks humour. Can anyone come up with a better suggestion that could be approved or should this just be redacted? Personally, I don't think installing a few bolts and an anchor doesn't give you special rights to be a dick, but obviously this guy, Charlie Barrett, and others have felt differently.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/122870421/gabby-petitos-last-argument

The name is in very poor taste and not very creative either, definitely should be redacted. How do you think Gabby’s parents would feel seeing that? Just disgusting.

Not entirely sure why I'm so disgusted by this name, except that Gaby Petito is a real person, with real parents and real friends.

This seems particularly cruel and hateful towards them. 

Not calling it out strikes me as cowardice or even complicity.

I'm not usually a redacter. 

I'm ok being associated with 99% of the names in Hueco, but this makes me embarrassed to be a fellow climber.

Jim Beyer is probably 131 years old at this point and he likely enjoys this thread and any negative feelings about his route name. This is giving him what he hoped for and more. 

You cant cancel a man who has spent his life ensuring he would never be accepted in the first place. 

I suggested a description change as well. Interesting that there’s push back on this considering some of the ridiculous route name changes/redactions that have been made over the last few years. This combined with much of the commentary in the CB thread makes me sick. These things are not joke material. 

First they came for my obscure 5.7+, and I did not speak out for I am a gym climber.

Use the Redaction Luke, use the Redaction.

Good. GOOD!

ErikaNWwrote:

These things are not joke material. 

Edit: I think a problem much larger than the terrible joke is when someone thinks they’re an authority on what’s allowed to be joked about.

One of the big problems here is folks think they’re the authority on what people are allowed to joke about. It’s a terrible joke but none of us is an authority.

J T wrote:

Lol cause attempting to incite a mob pads one’s ego. I’m surprised you didn’t immediately play that card. If one were to address the situation one on one there would be no back up and/or posts to reference!

When you discuss something do you make sure to have a mountain project thread to reference? 

ErikaNW wrote:

I suggested a description change as well. Interesting that there’s push back on this considering some of the ridiculous route name changes/redactions that have been made over the last few years. This combined with much of the commentary in the CB thread makes me sick. These things are not joke material.

Time changes our perceptions. People now joke about Aids, Hitler, Taliban, Trump, and any other bad topic you can think of. In this case people joke about michael peterson, OJ and michael jackson. I wouldn't make a joke about Gabby but if someone made a joke about it to me, I wouldn't laugh and just move on.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

When you discuss something do you make sure to have a mountain project thread to reference? 

Yes, mountain project is lyfe

It looks like that’s not the only bad one. The other routes are names “bad girlfriend”, “king freak”, and “peaceful journey”. 

Redact them all, let the god sort em out.

It’s a 1 star route, let’s all calm down