Tips for moving fast on multi pitch climbs

Jeff Jwrote:

This is a good example of an ideal situation.  I've been climbing for over 20 years and I can attest to the fact that ideal situations don't often present themselves.  That said, I don't care how good the placements are or how large the pro used is - I would never hang my ass on only 2 pieces.  Call me a pussy/wimp/whatever, I just don't believe 2 pieces of pro is adequate for a solid anchor.  If that's all you can get, fine, but in this example, a third piece could be easily placed and integrated.

Conclusion - this example is bullshit.  

I love how you state it's "a good example" and "an ideal situation"... yet later call it bollox. Which is it, jeff? Can't be both, can it? Also, I seem to have these situations present themselves all over the place in the Valley (I don't often climb many other places), so either you're not looking or we're climbing diff rock. As I mentioned, YMMV but yes, jump in and flame away with your blinding insight. In case you missed it, the OP asked about climbing "fast," not climbing "safe." Trade offs, brother.

point is, this anchor is a starting point. As I mentioned, feel free to add pieces and/or equalize if the situation calls for it, but this, IMO, should be the desired starting point for any anchor. Then, if necessary, add extra margin. Hanging belay? Yes, I'll prob add a cam and potentially a sling to cloved masterpoint. Standing on a ledge w/ bomber cracks? Heck no, two totems, nested, good to go.

What do the 'I'd never build a belay off of X pieces' folks do when they get to the top of a pitch and there's only 2 good placements available with the gear remaining on their harness?

MattHwrote:

What do the 'I'd never build a belay off of X pieces' folks do when they get to the top of a pitch and there's only 2 good placements available with the gear remaining on their harness?

What you do when you have no other choice isn't the same as your standard operating procedure, and the overall danger one puts themselves in by cutting little corners like this is proportional to the amount of time/number of times you do it. I've belayed (off my harness) with a single cam and pretty good stance... I wouldn't have chosen to do it if I had any other option, certainly not to save 30 seconds.

To beat the dead horse: the thread title is NOT "what is the least amount of pieces I can build a safe anchor with?" The thread actively seeks out tips for "moving fast." Ergo, we all spitball a sh**-ton of ideas out there, and the OP (and others) can then sift through that info and decide what tactics they are comfortable employing within their own climbing style. But please, go on with telling people how they MUST do it. 

YGD, YMMV, and all that usually mumbo jumbo.

Free solo

i always have to laugh when someone recommends faffing around with a cordalette all day to help speed things up.  tie it up, un-tie it, tie it up, un-tie it, knot is stuck so f_around for a while, tie it up, untie it....

slimwrote:

i always have to laugh when someone recommends faffing around with a cordalette all day to help speed things up.  tie it up, un-tie it, tie it up, un-tie it, knot is stuck so f_around for a while, tie it up, untie it....

Cordelettes have gotten so much hate in the US for the last 20 years. 

I posted earlier I can use the rope, slings, or a cordalette to build an anchor with 30 seconds of each other. The fastest thing for me much of the time is a girth-X, but again it’s seconds. If you put a biner in the cordelette knot it’s always easy to untie (that’s what I often use for TR anchors). A benefit of a cordlette is it’s super KISS and quick for novices to build and inspect a 3 piece non extending anchor with it. I don’t use one on multi pitch unless I know there’s a big trees for anchors, then they’re great to have along. 

Christian Heschwrote:

To beat the dead horse: the thread title is NOT "what is the least amount of pieces I can build a safe anchor with?" The thread actively seeks out tips for "moving fast." Ergo, we all spitball a sh**-ton of ideas out there, and the OP (and others) can then sift through that info and decide what tactics they are comfortable employing within their own climbing style. But please, go on with telling people how they MUST do it. 

YGD, YMMV, and all that usually mumbo jumbo.

True. I think the options for moving faster boil down to the following: 

1. Do what you're already doing, but faster. 

2. Do less stuff, cut corners, etc. This may be less safe than what you were previously doing, depending on what you were already doing. Discuss with partner before employing if it could affect their safety.

3. Free solo. 

Everything else is probably negligible in time difference. 

For cordalette discussion, see: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/122501960/cordalette-alternatives

Are you safe? That's the big question for me. Fast can be safe. Slow can be safe. But, I don't want to climb with anyone e who knowingly does stuff that is less safe, just to speed things up.

Jeff Jwrote:

Heh heh...I knew some moron would make this comment.  People of low intellect are so predictable.

We're talking about how to save time building anchors using CLEAN PROTECTION.  Cams.  Nuts.  Tricams.  Whatever you got.  

I didn't think it needed to be said but apparently it did.  

I'm sure even you can understand how bolts are irrelevant in this discussion because they're mere presence saves time.  

Maybe for this audience the following is a no brainer but to me a lot of gains are going to come from being efficient, especially at tasks you repeat.

Placing pro 

• Efficiently placing a piece of pro can take maybe 10 seconds (looking up and seeing the best place for solid pro, knowing what piece you need, knowing right were it is on your gear sling, easily unclipping (gates out!! :-), easily placing the correct extension (if needed))
• vs. Futzing around for 2 minutes. (fixating on one place for pro and ignoring better places nearby, trying 2 or 3 places to find something that fits, undoing a trad draw and realizing it's too much extension and shortening again)
• For 15 placements it could save you 30 minutes per pitch 

Belay switchovers

• Building an anchor is similar to placing pro, everything goes for the above times three
• Building an anchor in 1-2  minutes vs. 10 minutes
• When the second reaches the anchor until the leader takes off on the next pitch could also be 1-2 minutes (gear sling is organized, rope is flaked) anchor or 15 minutes (follower has a hodge podge of gear and hands them to the leader one at a time, . 
• Each switchover could be done in 2-5 minutes, or 20 minutes

Being efficient on an 8 pitch climb (when pitching it out i.e. not simulclimbing) may mean about 2-4 hours, while being inefficient may mean 6-8+ hours.

Lots of other great strategies have been mentioned but I think getting your efficiency dialed in first is going to net the greatest returns, no corners are cut and you're not rushing. I think you should be able to complete pitches in under 30 minutes (lead, clean, belay switchover) on an easy for you 2-4 pitch climb before you consider something longer. Of course I didn't do that when I was learning, and got on Royal Arches as my fourth ever trad lead and took 14 hours car to car LOL, but now whenever I get to the base of a multipitch and there's parties ahead of me that I can't pass I wait and watch them until at least their leader starts on the next pitch. I can usually tell right away just by watching them make a few pro placements if it's going to take them 15 minutes, or 30 minutes, or an hour per pitch, and decide if I want to go climb something else.

Apologies if this has already been quoted, but someone once told me, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast." Good understanding and practice of whatever systems being used between both members of a climb can speed things up quite a bit in my experience. Focusing so much on being fast typically will not make you fast.

for both of the previous posters, bears repeating. I can commiserate with glowering's first trip up the arches, as mine was probably close to that (over 10hrs, for sure) but actually it dawned on me that a route like RA is perfect for beginners, if they're focused on learning. Unfortunately, it seems many just "la-dee-da" their way through life and don't give a sh** about becoming more efficient, and thus forever live in their "i do everything super duper safe" bubble, not seizing the opportunity to work on their efficiency. This thread is great for picking up ways to improve efficiency but how do you test it (as a lower level climber)? By getting massive amounts of reps, and 2-3 pitch climbs are not enough. 14 separate pitches gives you a golden opportunity to implement techniques in real time and see the difference in efficiency between P2 and P10, let alone 14.

TL, DR: to increase efficiency, increase your reps (number of pitches). start with 5.easy, then implement what you learn on progressively more challenging terrain.

Gloweringwrote:

Maybe for this audience the following is a no brainer but to me a lot of gains are going to come from being efficient, especially at tasks you repeat.

Placing pro 

• Efficiently placing a piece of pro can take maybe 10 seconds (looking up and seeing the best place for solid pro, knowing what piece you need, knowing right were it is on your gear sling, easily unclipping (gates out!! :-), easily placing the correct extension (if needed))
• vs. Futzing around for 2 minutes. (fixating on one place for pro and ignoring better places nearby, trying 2 or 3 places to find something that fits, undoing a trad draw and realizing it's too much extension and shortening again)
• For 15 placements it could save you 30 minutes per pitch 

Belay switchovers

• Building an anchor is similar to placing pro, everything goes for the above times three
• Building an anchor in 1-2  minutes vs. 10 minutes
• When the second reaches the anchor until the leader takes off on the next pitch could also be 1-2 minutes (gear sling is organized, rope is flaked) anchor or 15 minutes (follower has a hodge podge of gear and hands them to the leader one at a time, . 
• Each switchover could be done in 2-5 minutes, or 20 minutes

Being efficient on an 8 pitch climb (when pitching it out i.e. not simulclimbing) may mean about 2-4 hours, while being inefficient may mean 6-8+ hours.

Lots of other great strategies have been mentioned but I think getting your efficiency dialed in first is going to net the greatest returns, no corners are cut and you're not rushing. I think you should be able to complete pitches in under 30 minutes (lead, clean, belay switchover) on an easy for you 2-4 pitch climb before you consider something longer. Of course I didn't do that when I was learning, and got on Royal Arches as my fourth ever trad lead and took 14 hours car to car LOL, but now whenever I get to the base of a multipitch and there's parties ahead of me that I can't pass I wait and watch them until at least their leader starts on the next pitch. I can usually tell right away just by watching them make a few pro placements if it's going to take them 15 minutes, or 30 minutes, or an hour per pitch, and decide if I want to go climb something else.

as an alternative and also because i am a 'multi-options' kinda guy....

i haven't tried it personally as i prefer racking off the harness, but I had a strong experienced climbing friend recommend NOT organizing the cams in any particular order on a sling. Taking into account that he was very familiar with his gear and it's 'color' scheme in relation to the cam sizing. It was also important to remember that he was climbing often and therefore able to size up / visually measure cracks and protectable features quickly and easily. Knowing what color/size cam to look for on the sling. It worked well for him.

*Edit - perhaps i should mention that this lack of organized sling translated to faster change over at the belay. the follower would simply clean the gear from rock to sling in no particular order. after reaching the belay and securing themselves, would hand over sling as is. then put leader on belay and they were off again. Or if not leading in blocks, the follower would keep the sling of gear and go on climbing past the belay as the new leader.

As for flaking the rope....i use doubles and am the worst at taking time to flake at belays. i prefer spaghettis piles and flipping the stack if needed.

just more ideas to share.

jcs 

jackscoldsweatwrote:

...i haven't tried it personally as i prefer racking off the harness, but I had a strong experienced climbing friend recommend NOT organizing the cams in any particular order on a sling. Taking into account that he was very familiar with his gear and it's 'color' scheme in relation to the cam sizing. 

Yeah, being unorganized is pretty much never going to be faster....  Hard pass on that idea.

slimwrote:

Yeah, being unorganized is pretty much never going to be faster....  Hard pass on that idea.

I think the point is that it's not materially slower to unrack a sling that isn't vs is sorted, while it's slow to sort cams/gear on the sling as a follower (one-handed finagling in the midst of climbing).

Edit: WTF, just reread. I thought this was just the follower not sorting before handing the sling off, but he's arguing for a completely random order gear sling being used by the leader. I agree with you, I don't see how a random-order sling is suitable for a leader on anything even moderately difficult. Just as sorting the sling as a follower doesn't make sense, having to sort it while leading must be even worse.

Serious question, does anyone use a gear sling???

Christian Heschwrote:

Serious question, does anyone use a gear sling???

Situation dependent. For offwidths? Absolutely. For roofs? Absolutely not.

When squeezing your body into an offwidth the gear can often get in the way and the sling gives you a lot more flexibility in where the gear hangs to get it out of the way. With roofs, gravity pulls the gear into the air behind you, forcing you to contort to reach it, if that's even possible.

I have yet to experience the joy (horror?) of a real offwidth roof so I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I generally rack on my harness but I know a lot of people (typically older trad dads) who rack with slings, and it doesn't seem worse for them except on roofs.

I used to climb at the Gunks all the time with a gear sling.  Almost every route there has a roof...I never had a problem.

Jeff Jwrote:

I used to climb at the Gunks all the time with a gear sling.  Almost every route there has a roof...I never had a problem.

Care to explain?

Gunks was exactly where I saw a number of people stop using gear slings, because of roofs. Was my home crag for many years.