East Ridge of Wolf's Head peak Accident Report July-6-2022

Ooftah!  Alex!  So sorry to hear all this.

WRT why the anchor failed, I wonder if the heavy traffic on this route wasn't a contributing factor. If the anchor chords ran over a sharp edge, then all the cycles of weighting and unweighting perhaps sped up the fraying process - if the rock is toothy enough, and you have enough traffic, we could speculate that you don't even need an edge per se. We had an accident around here a few years back where weight cycling on an edge seems to have been a factor.

Tradibanwrote:

It’s not the unsightliness that’s the problem, it’s the permanent alteration of the wilderness with hardware and the idea that we, as humans, can just leave our mark wherever we like. Tat can be cut replaced and thrown away, affectively leaving no mark. 

Unless something changes in the next 10-100 years, it seems like climbing will be more common place and with more people.

So I would argue, any tat on popular routes are going to be pretty permanent. I would argue, along with many others, tat leaves a more noticeable and ugly mark than a few bolts.

This has been argued over and over and over again. One of these days, someone is just going to put bolts there and this argument will be over. Because the majority of people will use them and see that they are preferred. 

Mitch, I didn’t see here where Tradiban was saying to not install rap bolts in this case.

he defiantly preached some silly crap upthread about how bolts are a desecration... 

Mitch Steinerwrote:

Unless something changes in the next 10-100 years, it seems like climbing will be more common place and with more people.

So I would argue, any tat on popular routes are going to be pretty permanent. I would argue, along with many others, tat leaves a more noticeable and ugly mark than a few bolts.

This has been argued over and over and over again. One of these days, someone is just going to put bolts there and this argument will be over. Because the majority of people will use them and see that they are preferred. 

Tat isn’t permanent if people replace it and I have no doubt that bolts are preferred, but that is not the point.

The point is that installing a bolt crosses an ethical line concerning how we interact with our environment, “wilderness” is supposed to be a pristine area in which we do our best not to alter it. Obviously, as humans we make many exceptions, still, I urge restraint as keeping climbing wild and unregulated will help quell the masses from trampling the earth writ large.

Tradibanwrote:

It’s not the unsightliness that’s the problem, it’s the permanent alteration of the wilderness with hardware and the idea that we, as humans, can just leave our mark wherever we like. Tat can be cut replaced and thrown away, affectively leaving no mark. 

"Affectively leaving no mark." So just because trash can be cleaned up at some point it can be left in the alpine? Got it, thanks for the education. 

Tat is not leave no trace, bolts are not either. Bolts last longer, have lower visual impact, are safer, probably have lower environmental impact. 

If you want to embrace your own ethic Traddy you must downclimb all routes, leaving no gear behind. 

Tradibanwrote:

The point is that installing a bolt crosses an ethical line concerning how we interact with our environment, “wilderness” is supposed to be a pristine area in which we do our best not to alter it. Obviously, as humans we make many exceptions, still, I urge restraint as keeping climbing wild and unregulated will help quell the masses from trampling the earth writ large.

This I can agree with and understand.   and in this case it seems clear that bolts will help better align to keeping the wilderness pristine (due to the huge waste and buildup of garbage on the raps). 

Until the world right-sizes its’ population, I do think we need to be cautious about easing wilderness access for the masses.

Tradibanwrote:

Tat isn’t permanent if people replace it and I have no doubt that bolts are preferred, but that is not the point.

The point is that installing a bolt crosses an ethical line concerning how we interact with our environment, “wilderness” is supposed to be a pristine area in which we do our best not to alter it. Obviously, as humans we make many exceptions, still, I urge restraint as keeping climbing wild and unregulated will help quell the masses from trampling the earth writ large.

I think it's pretty hard to argue that a route that's seen 40+ ascents in the last 2 months is really the wilderness experience you're trying to protect.

There are plenty of routes in the Winds, even on Wolf's Head, that should not have convenience bolts on them. The Beckey Route (which I've descended in an emergency) probably sees fewer than 10 ascents in a year, and it definitely doesn't need rappel bolts. I think once you cross the 1000 ascent mark (which Wolf's head crossed decades ago), leave no trace switches from minimizing individual impact to minimizing population impact. Which means forgoing tat anchors for bolts.

Put another way, there is a difference between the ethic of preserving the individual experience and the ethic of preserving the resource. When the number of visitors is small, these look the same, and you can abide both at the same time. When the number of visitors is large, they do not, and you have to pick one.

Bill Lawrywrote:

Until the world right-sizes its’ population, I do think we need to be cautious about easing wilderness access for the masses.

This is why we can’t have nice things 

It's hard to tell from the photos because of the shadows, but are these rap stations amenable to good cam placements?  If so, a good choice of a cam might be old rigid stem Wild Country Friends, where the cord tied through the drilled bottom hole could be cut off and replaced anytime one wanted, and the cam itself could be removed at any time. Such a built rap anchor could be visually inspected by anyone passing.  I have left cams and nuts in circumstances where the rap anchor was a half dead bush in shallow soil on rock. If someone else subsequently bootied them rather than choosing to use them, that is their choice.

How not To did a segment on breaking strength for these cams and they are still massively strong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHxu3x2NQ-o

I think I still have a couple of these cams in my Christmas Tree ornaments box.  I'd be happy to donate them if it would stop the exceedingly repetitive back and forth in this thread.

Petsfed 00wrote:

I think it's pretty hard to argue that a route that's seen 40+ ascents in the last 2 months is really the wilderness experience you're trying to protect.

There are plenty of routes in the Winds, even on Wolf's Head, that should not have convenience bolts on them. The Beckey Route (which I've descended in an emergency) probably sees fewer than 10 ascents in a year, and it definitely doesn't need rappel bolts. I think once you cross the 1000 ascent mark (which Wolf's head crossed decades ago), leave no trace switches from minimizing individual impact to minimizing population impact. Which means forgoing tat anchors for bolts.

Put another way, there is a difference between the ethic of preserving the individual experience and the ethic of preserving the resource. When the number of visitors is small, these look the same, and you can abide both at the same time. When the number of visitors is large, they do not, and you have to pick one.

I have faith that we can educate people and not have to pander to the lowest common denominator. All it takes is one person to clean up the tat and if people are sketched by lack of bolts they can, quite literally, take a hike.

Tradibanwrote:

I have faith that we can educate people and not have to pander to the lowest common denominator. All it takes is one person to clean up the tat and if people are sketched by lack of bolts they can, quite literally, take a hike.

I do not share your faith, clearly.

Bill Lawrywrote:

Until the world right-sizes its’ population, I do think we need to be cautious about easing wilderness access for the masses.

Unless you install a moving escalator, I think the 9 mile hike in is more of a deterrent than bolts will ever be. 

I find this argument incredibly disengenous. Being able to tie a Tat anchor is not preventing people from accessing a route. It's not like we're bolting anchors on the route, we're making the descent safer.  

Alex Wolfewrote:

Unless you install a moving escalator, I think the 9 mile hike in is more of a deterrent than bolts will ever be. 

I find this argument incredibly disengenous. Being able to tie a Tat anchor is not preventing people from accessing a route. It's not like we're bolting anchors on the route. 

That's the other thing: you still have to climb the entire route to get to this series of rappels. Bolting the rappels doesn't lower the commitment at all. Granted, as I said up thread, this accident could've been prevented by backing up the tat at each rappel, and having the last person remove the backup (if the tat is still good).

Tradibanwrote:

Tat A Bolt isn’t permanent if people replace it and I have no doubt that bolts are preferred, but that is not the point.

Fixed this for you…

Also, what’s your best guess on when people will remove the Tat once and for all? 2050? 2100? 2200? Think if there is an apocalypse right now, not sure anyone is gonna come down and remove the tat. Seems pretty permanent to me. 

Mitch Steinerwrote:

Fixed this for you…

Also, what’s your best guess on when people will remove the Tat once and for all? 2050? 2100? 2200? Think if there is an apocalypse right now, not sure anyone is gonna come down and remove the tat. Seems pretty permanent to me. 

If we invest in education people will remove the tat.

Here’s a question to tickle your brain a bit, would you object to a via ferrata being placed there? Or perhaps a Gondola, where do YOU draw the line? 

A bolt is the industrialization of wilderness.

Tradibanwrote:

Tat isn’t permanent if people replace it 

i simply must take the bait on this clown post

its not a particular piece of tat we are referring to, but the fact that there is always *a* piece of tat. Therefore the tat anchor is effectively permanent, even though its parts may be changed.

I draw the line on impacting the original intent or experience of the climb itself.

Trad route-no retro bolting

Snake Dike - no retro bolting without permission from FA.

Walk off descent (JTree)- No bolted anchor to rap or lower

However, what doesn’t cross the mine for me is bolted anchors where there is tat. Because it does not change the experience or intent of the RAPPEL. You still thread your rope through a metal ring, rap, and end up at another rap station. No change to your rap experience (apart from not fearing for your life) or intent of the rap station.

So yes, via ferrata or gondala crosses the line. 

Very  silly  comparing a rap station to a via feratta..