New and Experienced climbers over 50 #21

Aikido  practitioners are the  best  fallers ever. They land so  lightly.  Judo players  land  hard and  aggressive. Akido , Aiki jitsu and tai chi  are all  really good at redirecting  energy. Judo is  as well  but they  don't  set you down easy. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Aikido  practitioners are the  best  fallers ever. They land so  lightly.  Judo players  land  hard and  aggressive. Akido , Aiki jitsu and tai chi  are all  really good at redirecting  energy. Judo is  as well  but they  don't  set you down easy. 

I've got no idea what his discipline was. He was very quiet, climbed well, and seemed to enjoy catching people...

I’ve been hitting the bouldering gyms lately. At times I need to back off a problem at the top because I done like the consequences if I fall. It’s great though to go back a few days later and be able to finish a problem. Shown an increase in confidence.
it’s also great to have struggled on a problem (or at least not done it easily) and then go back and be able to do two laps. I really enjoy doing laps of problems, downclimbing all the way to the start holds and then repeating it without touching the floor.  Builds good endurance. 

This has nothing to do with climbing... but I'm leaving it here among friends--and feel free to skip this post.  I've been writing about my health journey, which I thought was just about fine-tuning some issues.  But along the way, I realized my problems were deeper than exposure to phthalates, or even heavy metals.  So, I started messaging my Kaiser docs that I wasn't feeling well, who it turns out are maxed out and barely able to respond to any messages.  A month ago I had a 10 minute, face-to-face with my Primary, who I had never met... he couldn't have been more dismissive.  "You've had too many tests.  When a woman your age comes to me with fatigue, it's usually heart failure. So I want you to get an Echo and stress test."

So, fine.  Where's the Echo?  And it turns out that Kaiser here doesn't do echos, but that their affiliate, Eisenhower, does.  And after a dozen phone calls to Eisenhower, I am told that they are booked out to late October.  So Kaiser's best suggestion was that I should go to the ER for workup... which we will do today.  Tony has been all obsessed about my pending heart attack, which I don't think is the issue.  But who knows? 

Meanwhile, we drove to Riverside for a biopsy on my thyroid gland, and while there, discovered that my body suddenly has so much thyroid hormone that I am in a 'hyper' state.  Extremely so.  In fact, my blood pressure has been 160/100 for weeks.  All the pacing, weight loss, racing heart etc is 'most likely' due to too much thyroid medication, or my own thyroid suddenly overproducing. All the labs are elevated.  Now that we have stopped/reduced my thyroid meds (and switched to a synthetic), we are waiting to see if most of those symptoms goes away.  I have been crashing hard from sudden withdrawal of thyroid medication.  But it's very weird to realize that no Kaiser doctor will follow up or be concerned about all of this, unless I continue making noise...and even then, they prioritize.  If you are not dying today, take a number. 

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So, this was an unexpected effect of moving to such a rural and underserved place.  Maybe Helen can relate?  In Sacramento, Kaiser had every specialty, and 3 major hospitals, all within a few miles. If I had a problem, all testing and specialties could have been done within a week, and coordinated by a Primary doc.  that is not the case here.  

I finally had an ah-hah moment yesterday when I realized that Kaiser simply isn't equipped to do business in Palm Desert/Indio.  They cannot offer what is needed.  I have clung to my memory of a big city Kaiser, and finally realized that it ain't the same here.  We swung by the insurance agent's office, disenrolled me from Kaiser and onto a regular Medicare plan effective Sept 1.  This is a lousy time to start over and even try to get in to see a new Primary--I'm exhausted and I'm sure they are weeks out.  But I think I'll feel better knowing I'm in a system that has the services and ability to take care of me in a crisis like this.

We have an ER here in the High Desert... I always thought that would be my resource in any kind of true emergency.  But for total care, we are going to have to just accept the long drive into Palm Springs (to Eisenhower).  And so this journey begins...

I guess this should be a minor point....but emotionally it's hard to consider that I might not be climbing for awhile.  I've been so weak lately that it's an effort just to do some dishes.  

EDIT:  The previous great discussion on music... I wanted to mention that our very own John, 'oldtradguy', is a 10 Years After fan like me, and we both love Alvin Lee.  John has sent me some great videos .  I tried to introduce Tony to this album, and he looks bewildered... this is not Bobby Vinton, or even CCR.    

Hmmmm....

Lori, I'm not entirely sure how to respond, except to say, you and I approach two extremes in this country. I'm sure you don't feel you are a "have", and I am certainly not entirely a "have not".

But.

My circumstances, until very very recently, were very different from you. Still are, in significant ways.

First, most importantly, although I've never been particularly fit (nor horribly unfit), I have always had remarkably good health. No ongoing concerns, rarely sick, no major mishaps (almost no mishaps at all), no hospital visits except childbirth and stitches for one cut, all this, my entire life. Arthritis and one hearing aid only recently. 

I've also been considerably lower income, most of the time. A good chunk of it, self employed, which meant no insurance at all, or purchasing insurance so expensive that it was just "disaster" insurance, with huge deductibles, at a huge monthly price. More than our mortgage at the time.

Which means, many years without any health care. A pregnancy crossing 2 calendar years meant 2 deductibles (specific deductible for pregnancy), then a third deductible for the baby the instant he was born. I think the final tally was about $11,000 out of pocket.

Once employed by the City of Boise? That was 19 hours, just under the cutoff for everything. It was only after I got the 25 hour job that I had medical insurance, although I still paid considerably more for it than a full timer would. Insurance for 3 adults pretty much equaled my entire paycheck, before all the various incentives etc were applied, and also the 2/3 the City paid for the insurance.

Annual healthcare was (and is) a standard blood screening and an office visit that is some stethoscoping and an opportunity to chitchat. 20, 30 minutes at most. Weight, blood pressure. No longer need pap smears, so not even any clothing removed.

Screenings are a mammogram, and colon cancer. Only started those recently. 

Vaccinations, as they come around.

Xrays for the arthritis.

The only specialists I've been to are physical therapy a few times for arthritis, and an audiologist, for what turns out to be lifelong deafness in one ear. Both very recent.

No dentistry for 25+ years, and only then because the doc insisted, when I was pregnant. Not for decades before that, not since I was a kid. No money for it, not covered by insurance. (It's on my to do list, now).

Even now, with insurance and more resources, that's still mostly the list. Not ever screened for a fraction of what you track, largely because of the bodies we each were issued. Still, I'd not ever have been offered, or even considered, the testing you've had. It's been super interesting...

But, I've had a body that I could count on, to just chug along with no problems whatever, and with no particular attention or effort put into that.

That's the hardest thing about discovering climbing so late. Suddenly, I am wildly interested in this body doing stuff "normal" old ladies never remotely consider.....and I've never considered. Or have any knowledge or experience with anything remotely like athleticism. How to get there, how to stay there, or even just hang on to the slippery slope. And just when the clock is starting to tick. The background noise to my life now, that clock.

It's simultaneously exciting, intimidating, and hugely discouraging, lol! Especially with climbers as my friends, family, and community now.

Working at the library, a downtown urban library, and in homebound services at that, I was very much in the midst of the true "have nots". It is appalling. The "throw away" people, who are carefully ignored, and made invisible. Cleaned away, like dirty dishes off a restaurant table.

That's where I was schooled in gross inequities, our class system.....and empathy and compassion.

And, became very well aware that my primary (perhaps only) value to our system, as an old lady, is as fodder for the "health care" system. A cash cow.

Moo. 

Best, Helen

Lori Milaswrote:

I finally had an ah-hah moment yesterday when I realized that Kaiser simply isn't equipped to do business in Palm Desert/Indio.  They cannot offer what is needed.  I have clung to my memory of a big city Kaiser, and finally realized that it ain't the same here.  We swung by the insurance agent's office, disenrolled me from Kaiser and onto a regular Medicare plan effective Sept 1.  This is a lousy time to start over and even try to get in to see a new Primary--I'm exhausted and I'm sure they are weeks out.  But I think I'll feel better knowing I'm in a system that has the services and ability to take care of me in a crisis like this.

Even living somewhere with good medical resources, a lot depends on the particular doctor. I think Bruce's medical crisis -- a systemic infection -- over a year ago may have been the result of a specialist inadequately treating an earlier localized infection. Probably malpractice not to have prescribed antibiotics and/or referred Bruce to an infectious disease doctor. Much as you try to be watchful and advocate for yourself, you wind up trusting your doctors' judgments, and they vary widely.   

wendy weisswrote:

Even living somewhere with good medical resources, a lot depends on the particular doctor. I think Bruce's medical crisis -- a systemic infection -- over a year ago may have been the result of a specialist inadequately treating an earlier localized infection. Probably malpractice not to have prescribed antibiotics and/or referred Bruce to an infectious disease doctor. Much as you try to be watchful and advocate for yourself, you wind up trusting your doctors' judgments, and they vary widely.   

Sitting here in the ER, this is all a loaded conversation.  Tony always wants to trust “The Doctor “ and I don’t trust them at all.  He thinks there will be a pill or a surgery… I think there will be sleuthing and partnership with good doctors.  But it’s never lost on me for a minute that having access to medical care is a privilege.  It’s just my first experience with an overwhelmed system with insufficient services.  

Wendy, I didn’t mean to not comment on your words on Bruce.  I know that was a long and scary ordeal. How is he now?  

Lori Milaswrote:

Sitting here in the ER, this is all a loaded conversation.  Tony always wants to trust “The Doctor “ and I don’t trust them at all.  He thinks there will be a pill or a surgery… I think there will be sleuthing and partnership with good doctors.  But it’s never lost on me for a minute that having access to medical care is a privilege.  It’s just my first experience with an overwhelmed system with insufficient services.  

Wendy, I didn’t mean to not comment on your words on Bruce.  I know that was a long and scary ordeal. How is he now?  

That's okay, Lori. I was speaking about medical care generally. Bruce is a lot better. He's getting around with a walker and can climb stairs with a cane, but still not walking unassisted. Steady progress though, so I'm hopeful that will come.

Helen when did you start climbing? I started late too, at 50. Wish I started earlier. It’s a pity I didn’t transition from abseiling in the army to climbing. Used to love going down water towers face first, almost running down the concrete. And what we called ‘angel diving’ pulling yards of rope through the figure eight and diving off (with a fireman’s belay).

Lori, interesting how Tony went straight to ‘pending heart attack’ after one person’s comment about the health problems of people he’s seen previously. I’m a massive hypochondriac, but in between that I live a life of utter abandon, I don’t look after my health at all really, arguably I do every thing wrong.
Here’s a poem. Relevant for all of us, it’s sort of about mortality.

Todd Berlier wrote:

i cant remember who was asking about amazing female climbers but this video of Anna Hazelnutt is AMAZING and very inspiring!

https://youtu.be/38B2K8XKh0U

Lol! I think that was me, looking for other "old" ladies' pics to show myself that yes, there might be hope, still, to not look like a loose assemblage of assorted random parts, only marginally held together. Each with their own ideas on what they are and aren't interested in doing, at any given moment.

So?

A question, after watching that vid.

Is it just up to whoever decides to climb something to decide if it's a highball boulder problem, or a route, that's being soloed? Cuz you can? Not me, obviously, but watching people soloing at COR (which is a collection of mostly big, separate, "boulders", really) plus how Jtree appears to be nothing but "boulders", small and large also, makes me wonder. I'm pretty sure there are routes out there that are pretty short. And there's no limit to what can be soloed, except the soloist's ability and drive, far as I can tell.

@Carl, I started at 58, although not much the first year or two. First ice, was just before 61st birthday. 

Best, Helen

Todd, both answers are great, thanks! I guess it's the same answer as everything else, "it depends". Although YGD would also be many people's reply.   

Those were quite the falls she was taking, too! Nice spotting, controlling her as she bounced off. People who haven't actually spotted don't understand that you may not get "caught" in the way they might expect. You're a projectile once you fall, with a ricochet when you hit the pads! I have to stay quite low, so my friends can give me that catch. Compressing arthritic knees isn't any fun.

I'm at least perambulating better, slowly, with time. Knee still doesn't like bending to go down stairs, or walking down a slope, but I make it do some anyway. Arthritis is different than injured. Move it or lose it, for sure.

Lawn needs mowing. More 100 degree days coming. Wa. Hoo.

Oh, and there were ants in the microwave this morning. Yes, they survive being microwaved.

Lori, awaiting updates. You're fortunate that you also have the smarts to understand stuff, and the willingness to research. It has struck me pretty often, the thought that if I'm struggling with whatever, how the hell are less capable people supposed to manage??

Best, Helen

Old lady Hwrote:

Lori, awaiting updates. You're fortunate that you also have the smarts to understand stuff, and the willingness to research. It has struck me pretty often, the thought that if I'm struggling with whatever, how the hell are less capable people supposed to manage??

Best, Helen

Helen, after 8 hours in the ER my heart is fine.  Something is not fine, however, and we need to figure it out.  I may have something called SIBO... it's a bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine.  I've lost about 20 pounds rapidly and become very weak.  So, it's doing the rounds with western medicine, the various testing, and it's stressful because for the first time in a long time I don't feel good.  I'm ready to have an endoscopy so they can poke around and see if there is anything of note.    

Aside from that though, I want to say that most of what I've posted about here has to do with trying to understand what it will take to be able to climb.  I'm not ill, nor do I ever think I was dealt a bad hand.  I do think of myself as extremely healthy and strong, diabetes just a thing to have to pay attention to.  Not being born a natural athlete this journey to become more fit and strong has all been a brand new discovery.  Starting at the climbing gym in Sacramento, I learned quickly that I could climb hard 2 days a week.... no more.  And that to climb those two days I had to eat differently, including far more protein, red meat, beef liver, fat soluble vitamins.  

Climbing here in Joshua Tree took my efforts to a whole other level.  There's no way to take it lightly.  I have found no 'casual climbing' here.  Others may find it differently... but for me, it's all required a level of health, endurance and strength that is foreign to me.  So, along the way, I've had to get specific about amounts of protein, lately B12/folate injections, hours of quality sleep, and particular focus on hydration!!!   You just can't fool the system.  

I came into this with the supposition that decay was not inevitable part of aging, and that with the right diet, sleep and exercise you could be pretty much as strong and vigorous as you were in much younger years.  I am probably wrong about this... a thing rgold has warned about numerous times.  Yet, I've just been so curious about what the limits are.  It's not about wanting to climb grades, but about wanting to experience the most beautiful routes in the world (to me   ) that always have me thinking "Ok, what will it take to climb this?"   It sorrows me to maybe have to accept that the 10b route I worked so hard on last season might be my max.  But it ain't over til it's over.

For most of my life I only saw a doctor when I was very sick... like almost never. And yes, childbirth.  Now I have an Endocrinologist who I check in with for diabetes, and a hormone doc who does everything else.  Most of what I've written about here has been my own private exploration, mostly out of curiosity, of what gets in the way of full vital health.  In my endeavor this summer, I discovered things that never occurred to me... high levels of cadmium, uranium and some lead and mercury in my body--the cadmium troubles me the most because it has shown up consistently in all testing and it's a bitch to detox.  This has to do with kidney stress, high blood pressure, loss of energy... I mean it's a nasty toxin that takes 10-30 years to get rid of.  If I have such high levels, then I expect most people do.  I discovered the world of plastics, BPAs and phthalates and got rid of them all.  Almost everything out there requires a substitute now... different water containers, different food storage, etc.  But that's part of the game, I think, of staying strong enough to climb. 

One of the more exciting parts of this journey for me has been the study of sleep.  Terry E reminded me about nose breathing, and to try taping my mouth at night.  I am working as we speak to create a totally blacked out bedroom at night which probably will require blackout curtains... NO light from any source.  I am having a relay switch installed in our bedroom so I can cut the electricity to our bedroom during sleep times.  Maybe retry the grounding sheets.  My goal is to make the bedroom feel exactly like the beautiful wild desert, sleeping under the stars.  Sleeping like the cavemen.  Part of the reason for this is because I've never felt better than when camping out... I think it's the 'earthing' part.  And lack of artificial light.  Seems like I should be able to camp out in my own backyard... but so far I haven't figured that out.  There are huge anthills everywhere, no doubt scorpions, and plenty of artificial light streaming from neighbors.  So... .maybe a campsite in the Park will be next best.  

 

Went rope soloing today.  its a lot of work compared to regular soloing but  I guess I need the work ;)

Lori, perhaps a subtle shift in attitude might help. I have found 40 years of casual climbing here, tons of routes 5.8 and under.

And I am working on a 5.10b route now that is pretty much at my max. When I finally do it with no falls I will be thrilled beyond words.

Brandt Allenwrote:

Lori, perhaps a subtle shift in attitude might help. I have found 40 years of casual climbing here, tons of routes 5.8 and under.

And I am working on a 5.10b route now that is pretty much at my max. When I finally do it with no falls I will be thrilled beyond words.

Brandt, I'd like to be there on that glorious day you climb the 10b. Can you share what route that is?  You, my friend, are a strong and graceful climber, really wonderful to behold, and I do not think you ever break a sweat.  Do you remember me saying I pulled off the road to have Tony watch a beautiful climber over ... where was it?  Sorry I cannot remember the route, but I know I was so inspired I had to go right over and try it myself the next day.  Maybe Echo Rock area?  

I wasn't only talking about my trying to climb some of the really hard ones.  My point, for me, was just that climbing AT ALL is hard, sometimes just getting to the rock is hard.  The exertion I experience is more about hours in the heat/cold, scrambling, rocks, sun, wind, bugs, even with very few laps I can get worn out so easily.  This isn't bowling.      But I do take your point and thank you for it.  

Todd, I put two glue in bolts over the top of every first ascent highball that I do.  I rig them for two shoulder length slings so that they are not visible from the ground.   You don’t have to use them, but if you fuck up and crater it is not my fault.  

Lori getting to routes is hard for me too, I have very bad knees. But when I get to the cliff I try and crush. Did a 21 yesterday on TR clean second go. The 25 year old I was with couldn’t do it.
I’m now back to climbing four days a week, Tues and Thurs indoors (bouldering, TRing and leading) and Sat Sun outdoors (TRing and leading). It’s always hard. If it was easy I’d want something harder.  

I needed a rodeo fix so i saddled up the van and drove a couple hours west. great sunsets out there

the women put on a good show with many times in the respectable 16 second range

American bullfighting is the only respectable bullfighting INMOP we let the bull win every night and the bullfighters job is simply to sacrifice his own body to save the rider after the rider gets rag dolled. good stuff. 

After the show I drove halfway home and glamped at the base of the crag. after a leisurely breakfast I loaded up the climbing pack and went rope soloing. total PINTA INMOP. I have the upmost respect for anyone who gets up the big stone that way.  this is the only shot i took. about a 10year old kid having a blast.  

 after some laps on 3 different climbs I packed up and did the long loop home. up over a ridge. Only about 3 miles but it sure seemed like work with a climbing pack ;) 

Ward Smithwrote:

Todd, I put two glue in bolts over the top of every first ascent highball that I do.  I rig them for two shoulder length slings so that they are not visible from the ground.   You don’t have to use them, but if you fuck up and crater it is not my fault.  

So the thing Alan told me about bolts on the tall boulder on the main trail very close to the Farley parking lot is true!!
Awesome. I might just have to humiliate myself on that rig!
Thanks Ward

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Lori getting to routes is hard for me too, I have very bad knees. But when I get to the cliff I try and crush. Did a 21 yesterday on TR clean second go. The 25 year old I was with couldn’t do it.
I’m now back to climbing four days a week, Tues and Thurs indoors (bouldering, TRing and leading) and Sat Sun outdoors (TRing and leading). It’s always hard. If it was easy I’d want something harder.  

Really good for you, Carl.
I can't pull off two gym sessions two days apart. I would thrash myself leading and bouldering.
Failing on routes is hard. The approach to the crag can sometimes be harder. I have steadily gravitated more towards "roadside crags",
But 1+ hr uphill approach to a great, long route and down again on a nice day is so rewarding too.