Post Other (Not Awesome) Trad Videos Here

This guy is the living (for the time being at least) embodiment of YGD.......

The real question is who is this guy's climbing partner and why is he still climbing with him? 

Aaron Kwrote:

The real question is who is this guy's climbing partner and why is he still climbing with him? 

If he has a gopro we need to find his channel and see just how bad this dynamic duo is.....

JFC there's a ground fall in the first 20 seconds. 

Long Rangerwrote:

JFC there's a ground fall in the first 20 seconds. 

Now that's the content I expect from this thread 

Where the hell was the belayer?

JCMwrote:

No condescension meant, just debating climbing and climbing areas, as we like to do here. I lived in the area for a number of years (50 minutes from Chapel Pond), and now live in California, so offering a both-coasts perspective. Honestly I think the crack climbing in the ADKs equals or exceeds many western trad areas (Indian Creek and Yosemite excluded).

But to not derail this thread on this topic, I posted up a spin-off thread in the Northeast forum. I think this could be an interesting topic in its own right. For those who wish to continue this debate, see here:
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/122870693/learning-to-crack-climb-as-a-northeast-climber

the first time i read this i thought you said indian creek and yosemite included. i was kind of stunned.

This group usually does a fine job with the comments, so I usually just read, but this time was different. Something about this guy that left me very uneasy. This is what I left on his Youtube page. I will edit it with a direct note to Brendon (his partner).

*********

Hi, sorry I don't know you, but you are putting other people in unnecessary grave danger, so I felt the need to speak up, especially after the way you are responding to comments in a listening manner (thank you) Now, I'm not an expert, but I've been climbing for like 25 years or something, and usually know danger when I see it. In this activity, danger means potential for death, so I try to point it out in a kind and respectful manner. 

You put your partner Brendon (sp?) in unnecessary grave danger at least twice. It was clear to me that he had even less experience than you, yet he was incredibly insightful at critical moments. Insight you ignored in the interest of what, ego? Alpha male stupid shit? I'm hoping you posted this video, not to boast, but to receive a licking and lesson from the climbing community. You have clearly read books, but by the look of your gear, the fact you wore that silly watch, the way you coiled the rope, etc etc etc......you either lack experience following good leaders (and learning), or didn't listen to them (like you didn't listen to Brendon). I really hope it is the former, since the latter means you are unlikely able to learn from others (which is OK, as long as you own it.)

The nut anchor that you built was (as Evan said above) a critical point of potential failure. Something Evan didn't mention, but I'm sure he was just too polite to say, was that if you fell climbing that roof, those sloppy nuts pulled, and then anchor pulled from an upward shock, you may have ended up dangling from whatever you placed before the roof crotch, your belay "anchor" jammed in whatever you had in first post-anchor, and poor Brandon stuck with a mess that neither one of you probably would know how to get out of (putting even more people at risk...how are your self-rescue skills?). Also, your two highest loaded nuts in the "anchor" were placed on either side of a chock stone. Dude.....this is Cannon...you said it yourself, the flakes and chocks are loose. This is a known fact about this place. Add broken foot for Brendon to the results above if that chock pulled. You spent an hour at a belay dismantling what appeared to be a pretty decent anchor built with large cams, ignored input from your partner, and then put his life at risk in the interest of what, your ego?. oof.

People who die climbing usually die rapping. You sir almost killed your partner once again on your descent (why didn't you aid the roof? because you don't know how to do that? Even though you are carrying a shiny new fifi hook? what is that for? tip: a cam and foot sling would have worked just fine). It was clear that Brandon trusted you. I can't remember if he lowered you, or you rapped a single line, but you left him up there without knowing how to get down. After you climbed back up an entire length of rope, you fumbled around a bit, not knowing what to do with your grigri, and then instructed Brandon to untie from the rope so you could rethread, and then lower him. That was completely unnecessary and added a pile of risk to your situation. Even folks who have been doing this for a long time wince at the idea of untying and retying after 6 hours on a hot cliff. 

Oh and thanks for wearing the rap ring down with your weird ass grigri Z rap that you pretended was normal. I have strong feelings against grigri's when trad climbing for various reasons. IMHO You should get really good with an ATC first, and if you want to work in a grigri later to help here and there when needed, fine. But god damn man, if this is how people rapped from rings, they'd get dangerous way sooner, putting some future inexperienced climbers at risk. What do you think is happening up there with the rap ring while your grigri is heating up? oof.

When Brandon mentioned the other party, and said "that is exactly what we need, some more experienced climbers to shows us...." (something like that) you said "it will come with time.". No it doesn't you bozo. It comes with practice and study. 

On the way down the trail, Brandon told you that the more experienced party that passed you placed a cam above them to protect the roof. That little roof. You then confidently explained that you placed (poorly) two nuts, because a piece in front of you would take a potential hand spot. Thats bonkers man, and Brandon didn't know enough to know that. You put a giant equalized sling on two poorly placed nuts at the crotch of a roof, and didn't seem to notice the absolute bomber placement for a cam or two in the roof crack itself. 

Someone above mentioned suggested you get professional instruction. You say you want to get AMGA certified. Fine. Drop the ego, dial up the awareness, ditch the stupid watch, and go follow leaders that know what they are doing and willing to show you what to do. Try that for a few years, then go hone your skills at Cathedral and Whitehorse on the easy 5.4/5.4 routes. Do that for awhile, practice some self-rescue skills, and then return to this climb. 5.8 does not mean easy when you are outside like it does in a gym. outside. Please stop putting people in unnecessary risk.

Aaron Kwrote:

Now that's the content I expect from this thread 

Where the hell was the belayer?

I can't watch the whole video now, but as he's weighting the pink tricam with both hands, actively pulling it out perpendicular to the rock, did he not see the hangerless bolt to the left? That's... what that is, right? I would assume anyone who owns and places a pink tricam also knows how to use a nut to utilize a hangerless bolt. 

Good luck, guys like this are immune to criticism, constructive or not.

Edit

NOOOOOOOOOOO!

I lost any desire to keep watching our unknowing free soloist at that point

The Climb50 username is for wanting to climb in all 50 states. Lookout folks, he’s coming to a crag near you! 

I dunno I kinda like the Sedona couple. They're really lucky he wasn't more badly injured in that fall. That was a big error, and I didn't notice the unlocked lockers or the backclip, but apart from the fall I didn't think they were so bad. They did set themselves up for an epic by starting so late. 

Not that what I'm about to say makes it any less stupid, but I once made a similar mistake on Birdie Party in the Gunks. I was only a few moves off of the ground. I put a small cam in the tricky little downward-facing v-slot at the bottom of the vertical seam, and I said "Hey, Gail, check this out, I think it's good!" Then I yanked on it and of course it pulled right out, sending me flying. I fell on my ass on the ground. Luckily for me, I wasn't hurt.

I see climb50 has pulled all his videos, perhaps i shouldn't have told him the were a running joke here @ mtn. project.

fossilwrote:

I see climb50 has pulled all his videos, perhaps i shouldn't have told him the were a running joke here @ mtn. project.

I saw that comment. I don't remember the exact phrasing, it was just downright mean, and I remember thinking it was a dumb thing to write to another human being.

Franck Veewrote:

I saw that comment. I don't remember the exact phrasing, it was just downright mean, and I remember thinking it was a dumb thing to write to another human being.

Maybe this will be the wake-up call he desperately needs.

SethGwrote:

Maybe this will be the wake-up call he desperately needs.

I highly doubt that.

From the top of my head, I can't recall a single instance of someone who was insulted verbally (or writtenly...) attacked for something they should change, and ended up changing that thing as a result of the attack. My observation is that this just isn't how personal changes work. Personal changes are hard. It needs to become a deep-rooted conviction that even though you used to to do X, Y is actually a lot better, and you're now willing to make necessary efforts to change you default decision-making to move to a new thing. That's not easy, and to be sustainable it must come from oneself (or be coerced so bad from external consequences as to leave little choice).

When attacked, a natural reflex is to move into the defensive. Hence, I guess, why he pulled everything. The natural reflex from that will not typically be some sort of introspection process leading to enlightenment, because even if the attack/insult came from some basis of constructive commentary, the person feeling attacked has already put the commentator in the "ennemy" bin, in a box of stuff to get away from, to protect oneself from and potentially to react against. Not a recipe to enlightenment. 

There's a reason why even constructive criticisms that are rooted in a good faith attempt to improve something are hard to deliver effectively without generating a defensive reaction. How many workplace have you been into where that kind of constructive criticism was welcomed, well-received and typically led to positive changes? A minority, in my experience.

Franck Veewrote:

I highly doubt that.

From the top of my head, I can't recall a single instance of someone who was insulted verbally (or writtenly...) attacked for something they should change, and ended up changing that thing as a result of the attack. My observation is that this just isn't how personal changes work. Personal changes are hard. It needs to become a deep-rooted conviction that even though you used to to do X, Y is actually a lot better, and you're now willing to make necessary efforts to change you default decision-making to move to a new thing. That's not easy, and to be sustainable it must come from oneself (or be coerced so bad from external consequences as to leave little choice).

When attacked, a natural reflex is to move into the defensive. Hence, I guess, why he pulled everything. The natural reflex from that will not typically be some sort of introspection process leading to enlightenment, because even if the attack/insult came from some basis of constructive commentary, the person feeling attacked has already put the commentator in the "ennemy" bin, in a box of stuff to get away from, to protect oneself from and potentially to react against. Not a recipe to enlightenment. 

There's a reason why even constructive criticisms that are rooted in a good faith attempt to improve something are hard to deliver effectively without generating a defensive reaction. How many workplace have you been into where that kind of constructive criticism was welcomed, well-received and typically led to positive changes? A minority, in my experience.

I'd like to second this because of how important it is right now in every aspect of life -- Mtnproj, personal relationships, politics, generally how we see the world around us, etc. Insulting and tearing down others will almost NEVER result in positive change. 

rock climbing wrote:

The problem is not negative criticism, is that there are way too many bored self made experts that know everything. Including the guy in the videos. This thread was not a teaching experience, but to make fun of people.

Sure, but Seth's claim was that this may prompt changes. I posit it won't.

What's up with all these people not using a clove hitch to connect to the anchor?

Thomas Worshamwrote:

What's up with all these people not using a clove hitch to connect to the anchor?

There are 30 other threads on here discussing the best way to attach yourself to the anchor 

Franck Vee hit it on the nose, no one takes getting backed into a corner and attacked well. sure i really do enjoy shredding this dudes skill and ability but as it has been mentioned many times before: this is getting into deadly territory for him and his partners. At this point i know he has taken videos down and probably wont listen to a single thing anyone says but honestly i hope that he lives. He is one slipped foot or broken hold away from being on the 5 oclock news and in an article in a climbing magazine about how not to trad climb. im hoping he figures out that he needs to leave the ego on the ground and get some lessons before its too late...