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Planning Zodiac in October but have never hammered any route
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Previous experience was Nose in 2.5 days and Salathe in 4 days (traffic jam). Also some C2+ in Zion. On walls, we free climb all 5.10- and 5.10, and most 5.10+ pitches. Generally FF 5.11-. We feel ready for Zodiac generally, but neither of us has hammered. Don't own pitons or a hammer. I'd be very happy to get as much detailed beta as anyone wants to give about equipment, pitch breakdown for hammering, and good places to practice in Salt Lake. I was thinking Less Than on triangle wall in LCC. Happy to buy any specialty gear that would make it easier to C3 the route. We own totems and offset cams. Appreciate the input. |
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I only did the first half of the route (huge backlog above) this past Fall but my critical gear was a lot of hand placed beaks and camhooks. Bring at least 4 or 5 beaks (a couple in each size) and have at least a camhook on either side. I never felt the need to hammer anything. |
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I climbed the route in May '21 and we didn't hammer at all (we did use a little clean aid hammer for cleaning, but the big hammer stayed in the haul bag). Lots of hand-placed beaks (you can hook dead heads with beaks, too!). Brought doubles in camhooks & hooks and used them a lot. Not sure what the current state of fixed gear is but in general I think you can approach Zodiac as a clean aid route that may require a few hammered placements. If you've climbed C2+ in Zion I think you guys will crush! Happy to share any other beta. |
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Zodiac is such a fine route! Ben and Jack's advice is spot on. My friend and I just climbed it last spring as our first El Cap route. At the time Horsetail Falls was blowing UP the wall and glistening in the sun, utterly magical. There isn't very much fixed gear which is awesome. To add a few extra details: Beaks will keep you safe above the Black Tower (pitch 6) Repeated (inverted) camhook placements make traversing out the Nipple (pitch 9) a breeze -- yet very exciting !! Don't forget rivet hangers Keep your eyes open for sky hook placements. Often they tend to be "enhanced" with an incut edge. A few sky hooks were necessary for sure. Since you free climb 5.10 on walls, you might want to have a go at freeing the pitch above Peanut Ledge (pitch 13). About 80 feet of hand/fist stacking in a 4-5" flake. I had 2 x #5 C4 cams and they were a little tipped out at times. My impression was that the old style #5 Camalot might be nice to have, since it ranges between the new #5 and #6 C4 cams, but not mandatory. Aiding this pitch was awkward since my ladders kept tangling in the flake. As for the necessity of hammering, I tapped a beak in once. These pitons are worth their weight in gold. They are solid when hand placed and even better with some tapping. Instead of a wall hammer, maybe bring a light carpentry hammer, that's all you need :) haha...  cleaning a beak on Black Tower pitch  top O the world ! |
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By the way, if you aren't experience with hand placed beaks and/or camhooks, Stigma at Cookie Cliff is a good place to play with them. You can practically do the whole pitch on cam-hooks and hand-placed beaks at like C2. You'll feel much better for the first pitch of Zodiac after that :D |
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Get a couple medium and large beaks. No need to hammer anything. I didn’t place a single piton when I climbed it. Offsets / totems make everything pretty straight forward. |
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We climbed it a few weeks ago, zero nails. M-L beaks, totems and camhooks will get you through. We brought the Sloan recommended rack and both felt you could trim the rack by about 1/3, especially cams (calls for ~5 sets) and iron (a few beaks will do). You also don't need 3x nuts/offsets (doubles, max). |
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Not to be nitpicking, but a beak IS a piton (the best piton). I tapped a few of mine in with a hammer, gonna try to just hand place all of mine next time. |
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So, simply learn how to climb it clean! It’s been done hammerless a million times, how hard can it be? It’s not C10! |
Rob Dillonwrote: What kind/how many hooks did you bring besides cam hooks? |
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For hand placed beak practice also go get on More Balls than Brains next to Church Bowl Tree. 30 seconds to approach Agree with everyone above, only used hand placed beaks, totems, offset cams, cam hooks and regular hooks and some stoppers and rivet hangers. For hooks, a talon, a small cliff hanger, and a medium cliff hanger were all that’s needed. Maybe doubles of one of those. No hammer needed. Do it clean. I did use a small beak once but it’s mostly medium and large beaks. Bring at least doubles. |
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Good advice from Alex above. |
Mark Hudonwrote: I appreciate the vote of confidence and the beta from others. I posted here because of the MP.com description of Zodiac. Under the gear list it says, "Yes, it's been done clean, reportedly hammerless even." Made it sound (to me) as though mere mortals wouldn't have a prayer to climb it clean. Sounds like we should plan on a lot of standard aid but have a small hammer for a backup. Happy to hear any other beta people have! |
Just curious, my understanding was always that clean = hammerless, but it sounds like there's a difference? What's an example of climbing "clean" but NOT hammerless? Using a hammer to clean hand placed beaks? |
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Clean and Hammerless are the same.. using a hammer and a nut tool to knock out stoppers is acceptable as clean.. within reason we carried a Stuby Ball Peen hammer on Zodiac.. the 2nd carried it and used it for the occasional nut. If the leader had decided to hammer- we would of had to send it up I only remember placing 1 or 2 Beaks by hand- on the Black Tower is the only one I clearly remember.. the route is awesome- and totally doable clean- but it’s not a Gimmee.. be prepared with the trickery When we did it a party was ahead of us in p1-2-3, they were hammering just a few feet off the ground and hammered the whole first day.. we did not. They let us pass on day 2, and we didn’t hear them Hammer anymore.. until my partner watched their leader take a 50ft fall on the Black Tower (which I’d just done clean) We listened to them hammer the rest of the route.. |
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Go get small ball peen hammer frome Ace Hardware and shorten the handle. Was glad to have mine for cleaning small brassies. But yeah, 2 years ago, Zodiac was a huge deal for me. But never once felt like I needed to bust the hammer out. I actually felt much closer to nailing on TTrip this spring. Here’s a TR from a couple years ago.
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Hey dudes, I am a big wall chump, for sure. And many of you cats have tremendous experience. But are a couple of love taps on a beak that big a deal these days? I thought the whole hammer-less thing had become more passe in a beak world with far fewer heads, where old trade routes are surprisingly free of fixed gear. Honnold had to bail off of Zodiac this year, because he tried to climb it without beaks or a hammer. The very fact that you can put the same size beak in the same placement, repeatedly, seems to indicate that little-to-no damage is being done to the placement. You couldn't do that with arrows or angles. Hardmen from Andy Kirkpatrick to Tyler Karow have, in recent years, gently nailed beaks on Zodiac. Check this out for Zodiac inspiration and gentle nailing. If I seriously bounce test a #2 or #3 beak in many placements, it will lock in just like you nailed it, and you will need a hammer to remove it. Is aggressive bounce testing non-clean climbing? Likewise, falling itself is often not so rock-friendly. Is it necessary to break your back on the Black Tower to avoid minimal or even non-existent rock degradation? My guess is that rescues are not rock-friendly either. |
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How many offset cams are really necessary? Would a single set suffice when paired with totems? |
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The larger totems will suffice for offsets but I have found that the Metolius Offset Master cams in the smaller sizes are far superior. Given that the Zodiac was once a popular nail up, it's pretty beat out and you'll be using offsets a lot. I'd take at least two sets. As far as Beaks go, it wouldn't bother me a bit to tap a few here and there. I took an upside down 50 footer off the Back Tower pitch trying to speed climb it clean.
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Mark Hudonwrote: Triples in totems to yellow and two sets of the smallest 3 offset sizes you think? |
Andrew Schaferwrote: Yeah, that would buff you out. |
