Pull downs

Any reason this is not acceptable for some class 4 rappels? null

  I know not a redundant anchor...  Asking about using this setup to allow all the rigging to be retrieved. Would rappel on both lines. If I pull on the right side everything works its way off the anchor.  It would be less snaggable if I dropped the biners and ran the rope through the sling, but was taught rope on rope is bad. However, if rappelling on both ends of the rope, would any friction exist?  

Could also add a second sling for redundancy.  

 Thanks for thoughts...  Just hate the idea of leaving "trash" behind so looking for pull down options.  Plenty out there to retrieve the rope, but would be nice to retrieve everything.  

Friction pulling a rope around a rock or tree like that is heinous. An equivocation hitch is a better option. Also if it’s truly 4th class, consider down climbing either with or without the rope. 

Cluster Onewrote:

If I pull on the right side everything works its way off the anchor.

Does it?  It looks like it would pull a bight of the left strand of the rope up over the anchor risking a real tangle.  The rope-on-webbing stuff is totally sketchy.  Have you considered a two ring retrievable anchor instead?

Thanks, will check out equivocation hitch and two ring methods.

Update -  (Trying to not take the rope around the rock anchor, thus the slings. Also trying to NOT take a pull cord)

1) Equivocation hitch-  Had actually seen before, just knew it as a macrame knot.  

2) Two-rings method -   This looks doable also also, but requires you rap on one rope not both(like macreme).  Still has the rope going around the anchor, not the slings. 

This post violated Guideline #1 and has been removed.

Cluster Onewrote:

2) Two-rings method -   This looks doable also also, but requires you rap on one rope not both(like macreme).  Still has the rope going around the anchor, not the slings. 

It seems there is more than one anchor with this name.  The one I was thinking of would have the rope run on the anchor rings only, and you would rappel both strands.  The sling has a large ring and a small ring, and the rope passes through both.  At one end of the rope a knot or other object is sized to fit through the large ring but not the small ring.  The rope is pulled such that this passes through the large ring side but catches the small ring, pulling down your anchor.  Commonly seen in use by arborists as a "friction saver" but I believe also in use by canyoneers.  There are various rings on the market you can use to make one yourself.

Cluster Onewrote:

 ...apologize for being a childish, then maybe you can actually add some value to this conversation. 

Tony, welcome to MP! 

Sorry for the childish nature some of us display here. It's not meant to hurt your feelings.  Many use these forums to try out dad humor and other snarks just to get a reaction. Other than the upcoming ice season it's all we have to look forward to. Please don't take that away from us...

Cluster Onewrote:

….That sheet has been in my family for over 60 years. It was my uncles….

Cluster-  sincerely appreciate the heartfelt explanation, but quite unnecessary.  As Charles explained, most here on MP are not taking things very seriously and thus the “haha” to indicate it was meant in jest, not a personal slam (unless you’re still wearing the matching jammies).  
I promise to play nice from here on out.  

Thanks Mark.  Damn, got me on the matching jammies, JK!   Any other suggestions on full gear retrieval, or is is just safer to leave an anchor and not fret it?  Maybe I am overthinking it... 

Alec Baker wrote:

That said, a Beal Escaper paired with a shorter single rope might actually be a good combo here. 

Thinking of using the Beal Escaper on "class 4 rappel" gives me the willies.  With nice smooth technique on a free hanging rappel it appears to be secure.  However as soon as you start partially unweighting it as I assume would happen walking backward down class 4 terrain I could easily imagine it working its way off while you are still on the rope.

Reply to Ricky:

I have not used the Escaper.  Good if it is more resistant to bouncing than I feared.  What about rope drag effects?  Rappelling on blocky low angle terrain could there be less than 40 pounds on the rope at the anchor, leading to it working free?  

I've used the two rings when doing rope shenanigans in a tree. Worked like a charm and pulled free and clean after rapping down. However, I'd expect this to get stuck on just about everything in less than vertical rock environment. Also, unlike a typical rope block to isolate a strand, this two ring system comes flying down at you at the end of the rope, not halfway. Definitely another scenario I'd like to avoid. 

Webfootwrote:

Thinking of using the Beal Escaper on "class 4 rappel" gives me the willies.  With nice smooth technique on a free hanging rappel it appears to be secure.  However as soon as you start partially unweighting it as I assume would happen walking backward down class 4 terrain I could easily imagine it working its way off while you are still on the rope.

It requires SIGNIFICANT unweighting for the rope to go through. So long as you keep at least a bit of your weight on it you'll be fine. It skeeves everyone out, but it actually would be a bit of a challenge to kill yourself using one. Going from say 150 pounds of weight to ~ 40 pounds of weight no rope slides through. Going from ~40 pounds to 0 pounds is where rope starts to slide through. Keeping at least a little weight on the rope should be trivial even in class 4 terrain. 

Hello Alec,   Most travel is offtrail bouncing from peak to pass, not so much established climbing routes. Venturing to Yosemite and plan to loosely follow Skurka's high route, but adding in peaks as time permits(Lyell, McClure, Ansel Adams, Forester...).  Just adding some safety by taking a rope. That Beal is an  interesting device for sure.  Would be worried that the tugging to get it to release might wear components/ rope on the rocks.  Still, seems more snag proof than the rings.   Thank you for your advice!

Note-. Will be using Petzl Radline

The Beal Escaper is definitely the way to go.  I have used mine around 150 times including doing pulldowns as shown in the photos below.

Explanation for use is below the last photo.

Rappelling from a tree, sling not left behind.

 You must use a sling, you cannot wrap the Escaper tail directly around the tree - too much friction, it won't release.  The pink string  retrieves the sling from the tree.  No carabiner is needed - there is negligible weight on the sling when the Escaper threading tail is in motion during pulldown, therefore virtually no heat or wear is generated(The Escaper slides an incremental distance on the sling only as you release the rope after each pull).  

The string has loops on either end.  You girth hitch the string to one side of the sling.  Thread the rappel rope through the opposite loop in the string just before passing the rope into the Escaper and finishing your follow-through knot.  The dyneema string is rated for 80lbs and can be broken if the sling hangs up on a feature.

I use my own homemade micro-Escapers but the usage for Beal's Escaper is exactly the same.  PM me for questions.  I have never had the Escaper fail to release even in class 4 territory.  Always keep 15 pound or more weight on the rope as you descend so it doesn't start the release cycle.  If you need to take your weight off, take all of it off and count it as one of the release pulls.  If you are moving around on a ledge with around 5 pounds weight on the rope you will cycle it free inadvertently.

Jordan Daywrote:

The Beal Escaper is definitely the way to go.  I have used mine around 150 times including doing pulldowns as shown in the photos below.

Explanation for use is below the last photo.

Rappelling from a tree, sling not left behind.

 You must use a sling, you cannot wrap the Escaper tail directly around the tree - too much friction, it won't release.  The pink string  retrieves the sling from the tree.  No carabiner is needed - there is negligible weight on the sling when the Escaper threading tail is in motion during pulldown, therefore virtually no heat or wear is generated(The Escaper slides an incremental distance on the sling only as you release the rope after each pull).  

The string has loops on either end.  You girth hitch the string to one side of the sling.  Thread the rappel rope through the opposite loop in the string just before passing the rope into the Escaper and finishing your follow-through knot.  The dyneema string is rated for 80lbs and can be broken if the sling hangs up on a feature.

I use my own homemade micro-Escapers but the usage for Beal's Escaper is exactly the same.  PM me for questions.  I have never had the Escaper fail to release even in class 4 territory.  Always keep 15 pound or more weight on the rope as you descend so it doesn't start the release cycle.  If you need to take your weight off, take all of it off and count it as one of the release pulls.  If you are moving around on a ledge with around 5 pounds weight on the rope you will cycle it free inadvertently.

I've been brainstorming how to do this. This is rad. Thanks!

@ricky.  Very cool, thanks!