Quickdraw gate snapped open after first fall

Hey guys,

I just got a brand new set of quickdraws and went climbing with them today. I got up around 3-4 feet above the third bolt and took a first fall of the day.

The fall wasn't very long but afterwards my belayer noticed that the first quickdraw's gate snapped open. I am curious as to what could have caused that. The biner flipped around but that shouldn't be the issue as long as it's still along it's major axis. My best guess is that the gate's side hit the rock and the gate went to the side and around the nose. I would like to know if it was quickdraw's fault or it somehow was an user error and could be prevented. If it's the former should I retire the whole set? If it's the latter I would appreciate any tips and explanations of the mistakes.

Thanks in advance.

Whoa! Definitely reach out to climbing technology.

What brand and model draw is that?

Tim Weng wrote:

What brand and model draw is that?

It's a Climbing Technology Magnum Pro Set Pad 12 cm

If the biner flipped around, then it could have been a case that it was cross loaded and with the fall enough force to cause the failure. IIRC there has been some discussion about key lock biners not being the best/safest design in some modes (take with a grain of salt).

Can you post more photos of just the carabiner? Is there any other discernable deformation? 

Based on the angle in the photo it looks like your belayer is quite a ways from the wall. This would add more tension in the first draw than if they were close to the wall. That said, it shouldn’t have been enough force to cause that kind of failure.

Also, I think if it were cross loaded during the fall and the gate popped open, the draw would have most likely detached from the bolt.

Definitely odd 

Edit: If the gate fluttered open during the fall, when it opened the major axis strength would be reduced and the carabiner could have elasticity deformed allowing the gate to miss the nose on its way back. 

Michael Abend wrote:

Based on the angle in the photo it looks like your belayer is quite a ways from the wall. This would add more tension in the first draw than if they were close to the wall. That said, it shouldn’t have been enough force to cause that kind of failure.

Also, I think if it were cross loaded during the fall and the gate popped open, the draw would have most likely detached from the bolt.

Definitely odd 

Edit: If the gate fluttered open during the fall, when it opened the major axis strength would be reduced and the carabiner could have elasticity deformed allowing the gate to miss the nose on its way back. 

My understanding is that gate flutter is more a rope-side than rock-side carabiner issue, though.

Mark D wrote:

My best guess is that the gate's side hit the rock and the gate went to the side and around the nose.

I definitely think it was a sideway force on the gate that moved the gate around the nose. But in the photo there doesn't seem to be any rock protrusion to cause this. Another possibility is in the progress of flipping around, the gate of the biner was caught on the bolt on the pin/rivet of the gate. The carabiner was also hanging straight down at this point. When you fell, the rope pulled the quickdraw/carabiner outwards, but the fat glue-in momentarily prevented the carabiner from aligning with the outward pull, so that applied a sideway force (and maybe a little inward force to open the gate slightly) and caused the gate to move around the nose. Eventually the carabiner aligned with the outward pull, and because the biner was caught close to the narrower end instead of the wider end, the biner slipped to the narrow end of instead of slipping off the glue-in.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the quickdraws and the biners, you just encountered a very low likelihood event. I would replace that particular biner with an open gate, but I wouldn't worry about the rest of the draws.

I also had a carabiner that looked similar to yours. I use some of my extra biners to set up a swing for my kids, and one day I came home to see one of the carabiners with the gate outside the nose, and the swing still hanging from it. My first reaction was that my kids must have been taking whippers on the swing while I'm not home, but I eventually figured out how they managed to do this.

Lol - have fun with your chinese knock-offs.  

With no engineering or R&D anywhere in the shop - what could possibly go wrong with something so simple?

Without testing, gate flutter is a guess.  The gate could have just slid open, wrong spring, weakened alloy, etc - hard to say.  

James W wrote:

Lol - have fun with your chinese knock-offs. 

Climbing Technology gear is made in Italy.  Are these fake CT draws?  I cannot find them in the catalog.

Webfoot wrote:

Climbing Technology gear is made in Italy.  Are these fake CT draws?  I cannot find them in the catalog.

Show us that.  

… and - who cares.

What I’ve seen is numerous “manufacurers” that have transformed themselves into marketing companies for Chinese designed (ie, copied) goods - even traditionally well known companies that used to actually design and manufacture in EU - the allure of “free” engieering, manufacturing and product development that undercuts (on paper) their own processes - have basically sold out - transforming their business to an empty front end selling shit gear.

James W wrote:

Show us that. 

Show you what?  Lots of brands are now made in China and I don't like it either, but Climbing Technology is not yet you seem to have something against them.  Why?

James W wrote:

What I’ve seen is numerous “manufacurers” that have transformed themselves into marketing companies for Chinese designed (ie, copied) goods - even traditionally well known companies that used to actually design and manufacture in EU - the allure of “free” engieering, manufacturing and product development that undercuts (on paper) their own processes - have basically sold out - transforming their business to an empty front end selling shit gear.

who are these numerous manufacturers? 

James W wrote:

What I’ve seen is numerous “manufacurers” that have transformed themselves into marketing companies for Chinese designed (ie, copied) goods - even traditionally well known companies that used to actually design and manufacture in EU - the allure of “free” engieering, manufacturing and product development that undercuts (on paper) their own processes - have basically sold out - transforming their business to an empty front end selling shit gear.

This is a very sweeping statement. 

Climbing Technology designs its own gear. Their gear is at least EU designed, EU tested and certified. The actual manufacture will take place in different locations because most products will have many components. Some components will be EU sourced. CT is not some sell out company. Look at the range of equipment they offer and some of their very unique patents. 

I have very similar CT quick draws and wouldn't overly worry. I'd send the offending carabiner to CT in Italy and ask for a replacement and for their official take on the matter. CT will let you know if there's something gravely wrong with all carabiners in that series. 

Yeah, stuff like that tends to happen on these bigger jobs