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A few Qs about a Casual Route attempt
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I've done a few big climbs (Epi, full Exum) so feel pretty good, but would love some microbeta on Longs if anyone cares to share.
Thanks yall. |
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Couple of thoughts: 1. I'm not a doctor, but I don't think hanging out at the boulderfield to acclimatize makes sense. The boulderfield is already high enough (12/13k) that if you're going to have problems on the Diamond, you'll have problems up there. You'll just keep feeling worse and worse until you decide to bail. Taking a whole day to scout the raps also doesn't make sense to me; IMO all you're doing is doubling the chances of dropping rocks on people coming up the North Chimney. I'd say if you really want to do two days up there, it makes more sense to sleep at Chasm Lake and use the first day to do something else in the area (Flying Buttress, Directissima, etc). That will let you sleep quite a bit lower (11k-ish) and get you more real climbing to assess how you're feeling for the Casual. 2. Can't comment on the raps because I haven't done them before. When we did the Casual, my partner and I got hit with a thundersnow storm right when we hit table ledge. We chose to traverse off and continue up Kieners, then descended via the Keyhole rather than try to find the Cables raps in whiteout conditions. 3. If you're staying in the area, you can probably get everything you need into 1 pack for the follower to wear during the climb. For the squeeze chimney it's easy enough for them to trail it with a double-length runner clipped to your belay loop. 4. Shouldn't need spikes for Kieners unless you're climbing it much later in the season when it's getting a hard freeze overnight. |
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Hi Lee, It's easy to bail after the P3 traverse- there is bail tat ALL over. If you are planning to rap from Table ledge (or bail with bad weather), you'll want two ropes. The chimney pitches aren't fun with a pack, I trailed it for the upper chimney on crux pitch and it worked just fine. |
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Lots of people have bailed from pitch 3. Likely, lots of tat. Be prepared to leave webbing, cord, slings or other gear. Don't reverse the traverse. |
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All of the above is good, on-point advice |
Lee Kennedywrote:We're planning on summiting via Keiners and descending Cables, but if some weather comes in, we'll do the raps from Table Ledge. If it comes in earlier than expected, I imagine bailing mid route would be rough due to it's traversing nature. What would be the best bail route if bailing after the pitch 3 traverse? Can you reach the traditional raps to climbers left? Should you reverse the traverse if possible? If you're leaving stuff at the Boulderfield, skirting the summit via Kieners, then descending via Cables back to the Boulderfield would be way more expedient then rapping down to Chasm Lake, since it's a few miles walkaround back to Boulderfield from there/taking a route back up from Broadway after a big day. I'd rather find a little nook at upper Kieners to hang out when weathering out any storm then rap in it, but that's just me. |
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Bivy permits are for people who are planning to climb a route the next day. Going out there simply to camp is against the regulations of the system in place and takes permit openings away from people who are ready to climb. This also won’t help you acclimate at all. If you want to tune your body up for higher elevations hike in and climb a route somewhere above or around 12k then hike out and sleep at lower elevation. Then go in and climb the casual route or bivy for it the following day. Otherwise just tough it out. |
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To me it seems like you’re doing a lot of unessisary work. You’d be better off to get a bivy permit for the day you’re going to do it and be climbing up to Broadway right before sunrise. This will give you the best odds of beating weather. You can do the first chimney pitch with a bag the second not so much. Note that the climb up to the summit is exhausting after doing the route and the cables start much further down than one would think. Honestly I’d just do longs one day to the summit from Keyhole and then bivy, climb and double rope rap back down and not go up and down the cables. I found this exhausting and I spent a lot of time at altitude. For the sake of not spraying online DM if you have any specific questions
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Thanks for the help/feedback everyone. Looks like bailing won't be much of a problem (although ideally, we'd wait out a storm and continue up and over if it's not severe), microspikes likely won't be needed, and we'll see if we can do one follower pack, trailed between the legs. Regarding the timeline question: First, (@Dylan Valvo) we have campground permits, not bivy permits, and the goal is to climb as soon as possible. Second, (@Mtn Cat, etc) the rappel scouting recon day is mostly to give time to acclimatize with some light activity, but also to become familiar with terrain before we do it in the dark. We'd be doing it later in the morning and be careful walking around so as to not kick any rocks on anyone. I understand that acclimatizing at 12k feet isn't ideal and I appreciate people's comments on that, but I think it'll work well enough (I spent ~24 hours at 11k feet on the Upper Saddle before doing the Full Exum, and that worked out fine). The question still stands if people have beta on the Exit/Cut-Off routes, or whatever else myself (or future readers of this post) might find helpful. |
Lee Kennedywrote: The anchors are mostly there to encourage/at least have an option for people to rap down, rather than climb the North Chimney, which sees a fair amount of rockfall. I wouldn't climb them with the idea that you're going to happen upon a classic route. Broadway (and below) can be a busy place, so be very careful with kicking rocks down. I know that's the not the answer you were looking for, but those are good details to have. Have a good time! |
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I used a microtrax (had it already to add safety while simuling) and 5.5mm tagline to haul my teams packs thru crux/squeeze chimney. Worked well and made the squeeze better. We did it in a day, up n over, hence the 2 packs. I managed to find/filter some water deep in the boulderfield talus, ratio of energy expended to water gained was not ideal but was bonking so hard it was worth it. Cables descent is pretty straightforward just keep close-ish to upper margin of diamond and look for eyebolts and a R-facing shallow corner thing. Climbed it in august i believe. Tat and cracks all over the place will make bailing to broadway pretty simple i’d think. My 2C. Have fun b safe! |
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My apologies Lee. Reading comprehension skills were lacking on this one. I have climbed near chasm chimney and it looked like a chill escape option. |
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I give your plan about a 2% chance of success. I don’t think you’ll even start the route. You’ll be too tired, for starters. Suggest you look into noaa point forecast for Longs and not set foot on the trail until you see less than maybe a 30% chance of afternoon showers for the day. 30% means you’ll still probably get rained on and freeze your ass off, it’s just likely to happen a little later and not last as long. Go cragging - Lumpy, Wizard’s, etc - until then - plenty high enough to acclimate a bit. Do it car 2 car. Leave the trailhead no later than 3am. Agree with above that bivies are for multiple objectives - but really - most who set out with that plan bail after the first because they’re too tired. It’s a 2 hr approach at most to where you would bivy - and sleep like shit after carrying a pack up there and trying to recover at that altitude. You’re from sea level - takes a month to actually acclimate. If you want to look around up there in advance, not a bad idea, then go on a sketch weather day and carry as little as possible. Otherwise download Google Earth and do your homework there. Ditch those Boulderfield camping permits and let some 14ers.com type headed up the Keyhole have them - your own odds will go up about 30% on that move alone. |
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Having never climbed the Diamond, my 2 cents is that acclimating up at the boulderfield is totally unnecessary. It's Colorado, there are unlimited opportunities to get up high. Just go camping at 10K for a couple nights and hike a 13er/do some high elevation cragging, and you'll be as acclimated as you're gonna be. |
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Hey Lee- You didn’t ask but I thought I would offer the following ; 1. Be sure to bring two ropes/ a tag for the chasm view raps (and should you decide to rap from table ledge). Only mentioning this as I have witnessed two different parties make the mistake of bringing only a single line.. 2. A hand over hand haul works well for P4, and the crux (you may try it on the dihedral pitch if your second is struggling, but it will likely need to be freed as they climb. It is not necessary but I also like to remove my helmet for the crux pitch). 3. If I remember correctly, sun leaves the route by mid-morning. Be prepared for a lot of shade. (The dihedral pitch is particularly chilly.) 4. Regardless of whether you rap back to chasm lake or hit kieners, top out, and descend via Cables (back to Chasm View), expect it will take a while. I have done that particular route ~10x and personally much prefer the latter. The first actual anchor (eyebolt) of the Cables descent is a couple hundred feet or more below the summit and can be quite tricky to find your first time up- Especially at night. I am personally not aware of a moderate, or even descent, escape route. The diamond is the most magical place, however increasingly more popular and thus more dangerous. I hope you have both an awe inspiring and safe experience. |
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Cutoff (5.7): it is chossy and not that straight forward. Not so chossy I wouldn't do it again, but take care. Finding it is easy; just continue up the Broadway ramp until it turns to 5th class. First pitch actually descends about 50 ft before climbing back up to keep it at grade. Follow that ledge weakness all the way up and right/north, turning corners and avoiding temptation to go more direct into the Red Wall top out (5.9+ dihedral with heinous drag). Agree that I'd take upper Kiener's and descend either Cables or Keyhole over the raps any day, and I agree on the double ropes all around. Acclimatization is different for everyone and I think your approach is as good as any, if not what I'd prefer coming from lower. Consider hitting the summit via Cables on day 1 versus a rap to Broadway. Also, bring ear plugs and an eye mask for the Boulderfield as there will be streams of early hikers lighting up the tent. I don't agree with the whole bivy spots are for those ready to climb thing. That's a bit much. Everyone has a right to enjoy the outdoors at their own speed. |
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Oh, I think what it's meant is the bivy spots are specifically for climbers, which is nice of the Park, as camping permits are hard to grab last minute, https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/bivy_sites.htm So nice that this is a resource, but I would consider actually doing a climb if you grab one. Having a day to acclimate seems pretty fun, just do a easy climb - plenty in the area. But this is neither here not there, since they OP has camping permits at the Boulder Field. |
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please have contingency plans please keep in mind the number of possible parties on the casual route each day, (2-12) many will be on the route in the dark at like 4-5AM and waiting around in the shade and wind is uncomfortable. oh and the routes on the diamond are the drainage and they drip and thus all the cracks and chimneys are wet. layer up and be ready with hats and gloves and water resistant puffies etc maybe have other routes planned out and be prepared to bail to get on to something else like on any of the other surrounding rock faces near the boulder field many locals say they would attempt any route 5.10-5.11 on the diamond but not the casual as it is often a gumbie junk show and wet however, many days of the year no one is on the casual route please remember the advice above the diamond is not a good way to summit longs consider a summit day before or after a technical climbing day |
Maybe Considerwrote: I was the first one on the route. It was a Tuesday. We soloed the north chimney starting at 345am after starting our hike at 2am. We passed a guide racking up in the boulderfield. We woke a party sleeping at the base of the first pitch. By the time we finished pitch 1 (still dark), they were both at the base in line. By the time we finished pitch 3 (we linked 2 and 3) both those parties had started climbing and their were 9 people standing at the base for a total of 15 people climbing. Who knows if anymore showed up. One pair did simul the whole thing past the first 3 parties on route. One party turned away at the start of the north chimney after almost getting their clocks cleaned by a block larger than a fridge that was knocked off Broadway. I suspect they were coming for the Casual as well. There was only one single party on another route that day. On the descent, looking at the Diamond from Chasm View, there were still parties on every single pitch from the second pitch on. Some of those people would be almost certainly topping out around dark. Basically, get up early or have a backup plan. Or hope it's a bluebird day, get in line and chill. Good luck, you seem plenty ready. |
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My 2 cents as an Estes resident and witness to many Diamond shenanigans. Chasm raps are fine for getting to the route to avoid the north chimneys, but if you bivy up there you're setting yourself up for a fairly committing climb, because if you bail, getting back up to your overnight is no small feat, especially if storms are still rolling in. Fastest way back up would be the camel gully. A bivy at chasm allows for easier retreat if necessary. Note there is still a very exposed section of traversing on Broadway from chasm raps right above the north chimneys to get to the base of the casual. You may want to rope up for this, but if you do there are loose rocks all over there and care should be taken to keep your rope up high off the ledge here. Microspikes are not needed for upper kieners, but I recommend them to anyone doing the north chimneys for the first time. Mills glacier is the site of constant sliding falls most busy mornings on the diamond. And as someone who's climbed this many times, I'm still typically bummed anytime I decide to forego spikes here. Bailing is possible on fixed anchors up to pitch 3, after this it becomes slightly more involved/you may be leaving gear to get down. If you go above this point do know you are more committed. I would say the opportunities for tat bail anchors on the diamond is generally plentiful, but it's still an Alpine big wall. It's committing, there's no way around that and you should be prepared for it. Rappelling is no small feat either as it's many double rope raps to get back to the ground and it's time consuming. I wouldn't go up with the mentality that you can just feel it out and bail whenever. You should be prepared to climb and willing to bail if weather/crowds force a retreat. I always haul a pack on the diamond with my tagline. (don't haul the north chimneys though obviously.) One, this is really nice for climbing with less weight on a steep wall. Two, as the leader when you get to the anchor and slowly start freezing in the shade waiting for your partner, you will have access to your belay parka. (it gets real cold when the sun goes away up there.) The wall is mostly steep and clean and hauling is easy. One bit of pitch beta I wish people would use more often is to link pitches two and three. Saves an awkward not fun hanging belay at the top of pitch two and will keep you moving faster. Also gives the leader better pro going into the Traverse. Rope drag isn't bad as pitch 2 is straight up and down with little opportunity to mess up extension. Pitch 3 only has like 3 pieces of gear anyways so drags not bad there either. Anyways that's my advice. Be courteous to parties below you and be vigilant for loose rocks. I've seen too many near misses of people pulling rocks down above other parties in the Alpine lately. |
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Also it's impossible to acclimate in a few nights to any high altitude. Your body either handles or it doesn't in that short of a time window. |
