Sport Lower-Offs

Mussy Hooks, perma-biners… whatever you call em everyone is using them for single pitch sport routes.

Are you setting them opposite and opposed or gates out?
I’ve seen em both ways, curious what most people on here think is the best way to set em

set gates out

some users bring a wrench and oppose them

I say only oppose them if the clip stance is good and clipping them is easy. Nothing worse than being super pumped and the crux of the route becomes clipping the chains/biners/mussys. With that said, I am not a big fan of mussys, which get used a lot in in Northern NM. You can't beat them for being brawny and being able to take a lot of wear, but they're just not easy to clip. Bad gate action, high lip to clear, small gate opening...

Gates out for harambe 

If you’re installing these anchors may I suggest Rams horns / pigs tails set vertical with top bolt being the horns threaded onto the bolt and bottom being a captive eye biner directly on the bolt or on a quick/chain.

Horns take the wear and easy to replace them when needed. The captive eye should pretty much never need replacing.

Usually gates out if they're sitting on the rock, and  opposed if they're free hanging. 

DrRockso RRGwrote:

Usually gates out of they're sitting on the rock, and  opposed if they're free hanging. 

I’m very new to climbing(less than a full year) so could you explain the reason for this please I’d love to learn

Mr Rogerswrote:

If you’re installing these anchors may I suggest Rams horns / pigs tails set vertical with top bolt being the horns threaded onto the bolt and bottom being a captive eye biner directly on the bolt or on a quick/chain.

Horns take the wear and easy to replace them when needed. The captive eye should pretty much never need replacing.

Agreed other than horns are pricey. Offset anchors can be good for hard anchor clips though.

Joshua Bonkowskiwrote:

I’m very new to climbing(less than a full year) so could you explain the reason for this please I’d love to learn

It can be difficult to clip opposed gates on vert or slab. 

Opposed gates are safer though so if they are free hanging and the stance is not bad that is the way to go.

Joshua Bonkowskiwrote:

I’m very new to climbing(less than a full year) so could you explain the reason for this please I’d love to learn

What Timothy said,  keep in mind this is for fixed lower offs, a mussy hook with the gate facing the wall can sit funny, especially if placed on slab and with just a quicklink attaching it to the bolt and no chain in between . 

Keep in mind this is for fixed lower offs, common practice is to set up your own anchor with quickdraws or other material for top roping, rather than utilizing the fixed gear. Because of the flexibility in the quickdraws opposing them is the way to go.  

I strongly suggest opposing them if there is any chance that they could be approached from above or climbed above by a climber unaware of the danger of that practice. I had a personal friend die at Ship Rock, NC when he clipped his rappel line into fixed shuts below him and lowered over the side, loading the gates of both

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/107614432/a-tragic-lesson-anchor-shuts-from-above

Brie Abramwrote:

I strongly suggest opposing them if there is any chance that they could be approached from above or climbed above by a climber unaware of the danger of that practice. I had a personal friend die at Ship Rock, NC when he clipped his rappel line into fixed shuts below him and lowered over the side, loading the gates of both

For sure something to be aware of with cold shuts. Basically since cold shuts are solid in place the ability for this "back clip" type failure scenario is much easier to happen if loading in from above. Not much you can do about that if you are installing cold shuts for your anchor though. They kinda just have that issue.
I've never been a big fan of cold shuts, although very easy to clip at the top of a pitch, they leave much to be desired in an anchor.
Sorry for the loss of your friend.

i've been using this anchor (except with a climbtech mussy on the top bolt) recently for sport lower offs. It works well, is relatively cheap, will last a long time, and only one component takes wear 

Scoot Bankwrote:

i've been using this anchor (except with a climbtech mussy on the top bolt) recently for sport lower offs. It works well, is relatively cheap, will last a long time, and only one component takes wear 

Why not add a quick link to the lower hanger to help reduce rope twist?

Kevin Mokracekwrote:

Why not add a quick link to the lower hanger to help reduce rope twist?

in a vertical setup, that bottom is really just an oh shit piece.

Kevin Mokracekwrote:

Why not add a quick link to the lower hanger to help reduce rope twist?

What PWZ said. The bottom bolt is never being weighted and the bottom caribiner barley touches the rope. It doesn’t twist the rope at all with this set up. I also think that not having that quicklink there keeps the “backup” biner in an  orientation  where it is less likely to unclip if the top bolt were to fail (which it won’t). It also seems less likely to have the rope double clip itself through the lower biner without the quicklink. Having this happen on a traversing route while someone is cleaning draws is my main worry with the inline setup.

People will still probably complain about the lack of “equalization”, risk of “shock loading” (even though there is a ton of dynamic rope in the system), and then add chain to it  

Scoot Bankwrote:

What PWZ said. The bottom bolt is never being weighted and the bottom caribiner barley touches the rope. It doesn’t twist the rope at all with this set up. I also think that not having that quicklink there keeps the “backup” biner in an  orientation  where it is less likely to unclip if the top bolt were to fail (which it won’t) 

People will still probably complain about the lack of “equalization”, risk of “shock loading” (even though there is a ton of dynamic rope in the system), and then add chain to it  

I don’t care about equalization at all but a twisted rope is my pet peeve.  If the lower biner is hanging free then it should be no problem 

Kevin Mokracekwrote:

I don’t care about equalization at all but a twisted rope is my pet peeve.  If the lower biner is hanging free then it should be no problem 

if its vertical the odds of that lower carabiner adding twists is minimal. It wouldn't be making a second turn over that low carabiner (which introduces the twist), maybe just rubbing it a bit at worst if belayer, or climber is way off line.
Easy fix if it needs it though by adding a QL as stated.

Whichever method you use, be sure whoever's doing the belaying knows he's (or she's) lowering, and the climber isn't rapelling. . .or vice versa. . .

too many times somebody thinks they're being lowered where the belayer took them off because they thought they were rapping. . .and somebody dies or gets seriously hurt.

Steve Williamswrote:

Whichever method you use, be sure whoever's doing the belaying knows he's (or she's) lowering, and the climber isn't rapelling. . .or vice versa. . .

too many times somebody thinks they're being lowered where the belayer took them off because they thought they were rapping. . .and somebody dies or gets seriously hurt.

yes, however not too relevant for this thread.