Totem Patent Ends Dec 22 - who’s next

Think anyone will attempt to create some competition for them?

love my totes, but the wires that wrap over the top of the lobes on my black are getting roughed up from rubbing against rock in tight placements. anyone else having this issue? it'd be nice if someone figured it out 

Double axle totems would be amazing.

As long as we can resling them in the states i would be happy!!! 

DMM and Wild Country both copied the Camalot double axle design and made their own tweaks to them and same with pretty much every microcam after Aliens, so with how game changing the Totem design is it stands to reason that others will copy them and make improvements/tweaks as well.  Really interested to see some cool clones come out as I think Totems are brilliant in design but don't like the handling of some of them (larger sizes mainly) when actually using them.

It took them several years after being able to show the design to get those things into production.  As expensive as they are, they’re probably the least profitable of all cams.  I don’t see anyone else doing it.

I think the real challenge is who can make a smaller than black Totem style cam.  Totem? Someone else? Is it even possible, practical or cost effective?

I am sticking with Totems but if someone picks up that design and makes smaller than black Totems that are rated for lead climbing I would be very interested.  I would pay more than the Totem asking price for C0 and C00 sized Totems.    

bmdhackswrote:

Double axle totems would be amazing.

Would that work?  Doesn't the path of the wire require the room that it has?

Can't wait to see Trango mess it up

It took 5 years to go from the patent for the double axle expiring to the release of the DMM Dragons, so we might be in for a bit of a wait

Khoiwrote:

It took 5 years to go from the patent for the double axle expiring to the release of the DMM Dragons, so we might be in for a bit of a wait

Unfamiliar with patent law, but could BD or someone else already be developing their own, seeing how popular the current totems are, with the intent to be on the market ASAP after the patent expires?

Chris Johnsonwrote:

Unfamiliar with patent law, but could BD or someone else already be developing their own, seeing how popular the current totems are, with the intent to be on the market ASAP after the patent expires?

yes.. Usually you can reverse enginner wheteaver you want, develop and test; but you can only put on the market after the patent ends. Dont Know if its different with safety gear, because of safety standars and tests that must be done. i dont know that if you apply for UIAA for example, if its open for the public(so totem would know and Sue BD), or if they require it to be somewhat in production, to accept it for tests..

I have all the totems except orange.  have debated getting it but its a bit floppy for my taste.  If someone made a slightly less floppy version it could be nice in the larger sizes. 

They could make the orange slightly stiffer by just using slightly higher diameter wire... but that adds to manufacturing cost to stock that wire, wider diameter springs, different cuts on the lobes (which may not be practical), etc... for the size that probably sells the least.

The key feature of a Totem that everyone will certainly copy, is the independent Direct Lobe Loading. This is what makes Totem the best cam on the market. How that is implemented will be unique to the different manufacturers, but they will all do it. 

In case anyone is interested in reading the patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US7014156B2/en

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

I’ve used it where a black diamond c4 wouldn’t possibly fit. Its more than a full lobe skinnier. It’s really not that floppy either, at least it doesn’t make placing it any harder.

Orange is still my favorite. If that thing goes in, it's the most bomber cam ever. 

bmdhackswrote:

Double axle totems would be amazing.

But not as secure in horizontals as a single axle is.

It's interesting how long it took them after the patent to develop the production version, catch on with consumers, then they have a few good years for sales, then the patent expires. I hope they have a few more years of good sales to get a good return on their idea and investments.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Bring on the number 3 totem! 

Also 4-8. Actually easily available 7 and 8 period would be nice!

bmdhackswrote:

Double axle totems would be amazing.

The reason totems, aliens, etc are so good in shit placements is because of geometry not available to double axles