Bivy on north ridge of Mt. Stuart

i’m hoping to climb the north ridge of stuart in a few days, but will be with a fairly inexperienced partner and am wondering how convenient a bivy en route would be. Asking mainly to decide whether to shoot for the upper ridge in a day or the full ridge in two (planning on camping somewhere by stuart pass before and after, so either 3 or 4 nights in total). if you’ve had or heard of success or horror stories with this sort of thing let me know! Thanks

We purposefully did the complete North Ridge in three days since we wanted to enjoy the time in nature.  We slept at the bottom and then at the half way bivvy.  We arrived at the bivvy at 1PM or so and spent a great afternoon and evening just hanging out.  The only issue the next day was being low on water for the descent.

It was a super relaxed romp and I highly recommend this approach if you have the time.

When you say relatively inexperienced partner, what do you really mean? Doing this route with a relatively inexperienced partner sounds like a pretty dumb idea. If you are carrying a bunch of bivy gear, etc, the climbing isnt going to be that fun. 

Note: I didn't comment on the partner's experience.  

What slim said: it's a remote place with serious consequences.  I would NOT take an inexperienced partner back there.

Dude, looking at your ticklist - if it was you and another equal partner i would give you less than 50/50 of pulling it off. It looks like you kind of epiced on a 6 pitch 5.6 recently. And bailed after 2 pitches of nutcracker recently.

If you want an easier route that is still fun, infinitely less committing,  and a much nicer bivy on top, i would suggest the beckey route on liberty bell.

Bonus would be that you could also bag other stuff in the area. You dont want to be the folks clogging up the NR of stuart.

Based on recent beta on PNW Peakbaggers (FB) it's still pretty snowy on the ridge as of this week.

Mark Smiley of 50 climbs fame did it with a Bivy on route: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc01xHh9crg

Slim, I know I'm far off from it, but what would you say it takes to be able to do it? I'm hopping to lead W. Ridge Forbidden, Beckey on Liberty Bell this season. 

slimwrote:

Dude, looking at your ticklist - if it was you and another equal partner i would give you less than 50/50 of pulling it off. It looks like you kind of epiced on a 6 pitch 5.6 recently. And bailed after 2 pitches of nutcracker recently.

If you want an easier route that is still fun, infinitely less committing,  and a much nicer bivy on top, i would suggest the beckey route on liberty bell.

Bonus would be that you could also bag other stuff in the area. You dont want to be the folks clogging up the NR of stuart.

I appreciate this feedback, I certainly don't want to overestimate my own capacity to essentially guide somebody on this sort of terrain. The partner is a bit more experienced than those I did the 5.6 you mentioned and tenaya with, i.e. can't lead trad but can follow efficiently and can rap, knows some basic self rescue, etc. That being said, I would still essentially be guiding which I'm not particularly qualified for 

To give some clarification where it's due (and attempt to save some face), the climbs you mentioned as well as tenaya were done with very inexperienced partners and the bail was a sort of medical issue and unrelated to the climb itself, more than I care to go into on MP for my partner's sake. 

My thought process here was that I was quite comfortable taking somebody up the nw ridge of tenaya, simuling most of it with a microtrax and tibloc to protect the tougher sections, and this seemed to be similar but with harder crux pitches since this partner is more comfortable with those grades, but the weather and remoteness for this objective certainly add some complexity I hadn't fully yet thought through. I think you're definitely right, I don't want to be on something quite as remote and committing with somebody I can't rely on to carry their own weight. If you have any other suggestions on top of the beckey route that would be greatly appreciated

Good plan.

For anyone else reading this, the north ridge of Stuart (and especially the complete north ridge) is *nothing* like Tenaya.  Tenaya is casual 4th class with a few trivial moves of 5th class.  On Stuart, the cruxes are what they are, but the rest of the climbing is almost all true 5th class.  You and your partner should be comfortable moving fast on sustained 5.5-5.6 granite with minimal pro in a remote setting with serious consequences.

Aaron Lieblingwrote:

Good plan.

For anyone else reading this, the north ridge of Stuart (and especially the complete north ridge) is *nothing* like Tenaya.  Tenaya is casual 4th class with a few trivial moves of 5th class.  On Stuart, the cruxes are what they are, but the rest of the climbing is almost all true 5th class.  You and your partner should be comfortable moving fast on sustained 5.5-5.6 granite with minimal pro in a remote setting with serious consequences.

Good to know. better to be humbled on mp than up in there…

Anonymous Userwrote:

 If you have any other suggestions on top of the beckey route that would be greatly appreciated

Danny check out the Liberty Traverse. It starts with the Beckey Route then continues up and over moderate routes on the other 4 towers in the group. It gets you climbing all day like the CNR, but has bail options every few pitches between each tower. There’s even a pretty nice bivy spot between Lexington and NEWS if you want to break it up into two days.

Aaron Lieblingwrote:

Good plan.

For anyone else reading this, the north ridge of Stuart (and especially the complete north ridge) is *nothing* like Tenaya.  Tenaya is casual 4th class with a few trivial moves of 5th class.  On Stuart, the cruxes are what they are, but the rest of the climbing is almost all true 5th class.  You and your partner should be comfortable moving fast on sustained 5.5-5.6 granite with minimal pro in a remote setting with serious consequences.

yes i completely agree with aaron, NR of stuart and tanaya are incredibly different.  stuart has a big approach and a big descent (with a gut punching last minute up and over if you do it from the south), and a lot of this involves routefinding and general alpine terrain.  something as simple as not having an axe to get past 40 feet of snow can really slow you down.  tanaya is a few hundred yards off the highway with a straight forward approach and descent. bailing would also not be a huge problem.

on stuart the climbing is like 3 or 4 times bigger than tanaya. maybe more(?)  another MAJOR difference is that a lot of stuart is knife edge ridge traversing (and a few down climbs) - the second really needs to be a solid climber or they will be in a bad situation for a lot of the route. another problem is bailing - once you get very high at all on this route bailing would be awful. 

tactical considerations are pretty crucial on stuart.  are both climbers carrying packs? how heavy? if simulclimbing is the leader carrying the pack (tiring)? or is the second carrying the pack (second has to be really solid for this).  even with minimal stuff you will likely be carrying a bit of weight (water, food, spare clothes, probably shoes, maybe some snow/ice crap).  if you are bivying it is going to be a lot more stuff.

it's really worth sitting down and planning all of this out pretty extensively.

Sylvester Jakubowskiwrote:

Based on recent beta on PNW Peakbaggers (FB) it's still pretty snowy on the ridge as of this week.

Mark Smiley of 50 climbs fame did it with a Bivy on route: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc01xHh9crg

Slim, I know I'm far off from it, but what would you say it takes to be able to do it? I'm hopping to lead W. Ridge Forbidden, Beckey on Liberty Bell this season. 

it depends on if you are going to do it in a day, or just do the climbing in a day with bivies at the lake.  i would have to look at my GPS tracks, but off hand i would say the approaches are pretty similar for forbidden and stuart.  in terms of the climbing, i would say climbing stuart would be similar to climbing forbidden (including the first few pitches of the approach chimney) maybe 4 times(?). the ridge on forbidden is less than a quarter mile and the ridge on stuart is probably at least a mile.  add on top of that stuart has several individual pitches that are significantly harder.  the stuart descent is exponentially worse than the forbidden descent (it literally feels like it will never end). stuart is definitely several levels harder than forbidden. you will want several training/benchmark routes between forbidden and stuart.

it really isn't possible to compare beckey and stuart. they are more than worlds apart, more like universes apart.  if i were going to use washington pass to train for stuart i would shoot for this: climb NW corner of North Early Winter Spire, descend and then climb Southwest Rib of South Early Winter spire, descend and climb NW corner of NEWS (again), descend and climb Southwest Rib of SEWS (again).  if you can do this you will probably be in good shape for the climbing portion of stuart. the rest is just hiking :)

i think washington pass would generally be a good stuart training area. there are a bunch of things you could put together for practice routes.  a good one to practice simulclimbing and general bullshit would be blues buttress on poster peak.  if you can do this 3 or 4 times in a day you probably have the general scrambling speed.  then you just need to mix in some 9+/10- pitches and cardio, which can easily be done separately.  the handy thing about these types of training attempts is that you can easily bail after the 1st or 2nd or 3rd lap, and you can see how you are progressing throughout the season.

Anonymous Userwrote:

I appreciate this feedback, I certainly don't want to overestimate my own capacity to essentially guide somebody on this sort of terrain. The partner is a bit more experienced than those I did the 5.6 you mentioned and tenaya with, i.e. can't lead trad but can follow efficiently and can rap, knows some basic self rescue, etc. That being said, I would still essentially be guiding which I'm not particularly qualified for 

To give some clarification where it's due (and attempt to save some face), the climbs you mentioned as well as tenaya were done with very inexperienced partners and the bail was a sort of medical issue and unrelated to the climb itself, more than I care to go into on MP for my partner's sake. 

My thought process here was that I was quite comfortable taking somebody up the nw ridge of tenaya, simuling most of it with a microtrax and tibloc to protect the tougher sections, and this seemed to be similar but with harder crux pitches since this partner is more comfortable with those grades, but the weather and remoteness for this objective certainly add some complexity I hadn't fully yet thought through. I think you're definitely right, I don't want to be on something quite as remote and committing with somebody I can't rely on to carry their own weight. If you have any other suggestions on top of the beckey route that would be greatly appreciated

the washington pass area is a really good option, especially if it is your first time climbing in the PNW.  there are a bunch of fun routes, but yet still definitely have an alpine feel.  you can do a bunch of moderate linkups on the different summits, or routes that are a bit harder, or routes that are quite a bit harder.  i think you will have an easier time finding something that both of you will enjoy. i can't even imagine what it would be like climbing stuart with a partner who isn't super solid, it would just be really overwhelming for them and they probably wouldn't enjoy it.  it could turn into type 3 fun pretty quickly. (type 3 fun is the kind of fun that you look back 20 years later and still say that royally sucked).

The West Ridge of Stuart c-to-c is a good way to test your fitness for the N Ridge. It's a super fun route on its own and you can add some great 5.8-ish climbing on the summit ridge (stay on the ridge after coming back from the N side) to make it worth dragging the rope up there.  You will also get to learn the southern exit route, which will be a huge benefit if you are coming down from the N Ridge in the dark.  It's probably still a bit snowy right now, but should be coming into good shape (i.e., almost all on dry rock until the descent) in the next few weeks.

Sylvester Jakubowskiwrote:

I know I'm far off from it, but what would you say it takes to be able to do it? I'm hopping to lead W. Ridge Forbidden, Beckey on Liberty Bell this season. 

In the WA Pass area, there are a few things you could climb in a reasonable build-up to Stuart.  After doing the Beckey, check out:

• NW Corner NEWS or SW Rib SEWS (harder climbing than Beckey)
• Cutthroat S. Ridge (much longer route, generally easy climbing, a bit of descent complexity, less trafficked)
• Paisano-Burgundy linkup (around 15 pitches at a grade similar to Stuart, but much less committing)

Forbidden's West Ridge is a great Stuart trainer too, it's similar in overall approach and character and has a lot more alpine elements than anything at WA Pass.  However, the climbing is WAY easier than Stuart, and it's also much less committing because you go back down the way you went up and can reverse easily at any time, and you don't need to carry camp stuff or approach stuff on the route.

In my opinion anyone thinking about the N. Ridge of Stuart should be onsighting 5.10a/b cracks at the crag, so that 5.9 cracks after a long day wearing a pack are still feasible.

Edit: Also, general mountaineering/alpine experience is valuable on routes like Stuart and Forbidden.  There's snow travel, off-trail navigation, logistics, etc.  So, having done a bunch of non-technical snow climbs isn't a bad thing either.

Anonymous Userwrote:

My thought process here was that I was quite comfortable taking somebody up the nw ridge of tenaya, simuling most of it with a microtrax and tibloc to protect the tougher sections, and this seemed to be similar but with harder crux pitches since this partner is more comfortable with those grades, but the weather and remoteness for this objective certainly add some complexity I hadn't fully yet thought through. I think you're definitely right, I don't want to be on something quite as remote and committing with somebody I can't rely on to carry their own weight. If you have any other suggestions on top of the beckey route that would be greatly appreciated

Maybe just reiterating what's already been said, but, IMO if someone isn't comfortable leading a route, they shouldn't comfortable simuling a route especially as a second. Even with progress capture devices. just because the rope is above you doesn't mean it's top roping. Like others have said, NR Stu is a MASSIVE step up from Tenaya. 

I'm also of the belief that if you can climb a route in two days with overnight packs, then you can climb it in one with a much faster and lighter kit, at least camp-to-camp if not car-to-car. 

You could have a heyday at WA Pass. Beckey Route, SW Rib, NW Corner. Doing the Liberty Traverse (all five main WA Pass spires) would be a comparable, but much less committing, outing to the North Ridge. Paisano-Burgundy linkup is worth considering as well for a big car to car day. If that feels easy enough, then go for it.

Erroneous Publicuswrote:

The West Ridge of Stuart c-to-c is a good way to test your fitness for the N Ridge. It's a super fun route on its own and you can add some great 5.8-ish climbing on the summit ridge (stay on the ridge after coming back from the N side) to make it worth dragging the rope up there.  You will also get to learn the southern exit route, which will be a huge benefit if you are coming down from the N Ridge in the dark.  It's probably still a bit snowy right now, but should be coming into good shape (i.e., almost all on dry rock until the descent) in the next few weeks.

yes, this is a good litmus test.  it is definitely longer and harder than it sounds, and like EP says - it gives you a preview of part of the approach as well as the descent (so you don't have to onsite the descent when doing the NR - which would suck).

kyle and matt both have good suggestions and have a lot of experience up there.

also - good job being receptive to criticism and being flexable.  those are good traits to have as you start planning things out.