Is San Diego a bad option!?

I think the reality is somewhere in the middle of what both of you are describing 

Tradibanwrote:

You know that you guys met at the New Worrol Order meeting, right?

Really? This could have all been settled over a few drinks then! New World Order 2.0?

Not My Name, I will acknowledge my experience is limited at the beaches. It is saddening to hear what you deal with (assume y'all live down there), the riff raff and grifters and so on. We are dealing with a generation losing hope. Last year my neighbor OD'd (probably fentanyl the culprit) and died. Ambulance came to take him away, right here in the 'burbs. There are kids here!! So we are in agreement that we can do better! I just try to stay optimistic.

I've lived in Ventura, Sacramento, and San Diego since coming to CA about 10 years ago. I really made the most friends here in SD and love it so much. 

These San Diego threads do seem to escalate. Did anyone check if Kevin W recovered from the 20 page local climbing thread a while back?

I guess the real question to ask is, why are so many people living in vans? Where did it all go wrong for the middle class here in CA? We've all heard the stats, many people moving away to make a better life. It's like the Grapes of Wrath but in reverse! 

jt newgardwrote:

These San Diego threads do seem to escalate. Did anyone check if Kevin W recovered from the 20 page local climbing thread a while back?

I guess the real question to ask is, why are so many people living in vans? Where did it all go wrong for the middle class here in CA? We've all heard the stats, many people moving away to make a better life. It's like the Grapes of Wrath but in reverse! 

To actually deconstruct the socioeconomics of mobile homelessness would take a dissertation from a few PhD's and even then would leave something out.

The drug problem with the homeless in San Diego is extreme, even in Ocean Beach where its much more mild than most of the city.

The housing problem is a big deal, with sleazy landlords jacking up the rent to match 'market value' and booting out long time renters - check the san diego craigslist, reddit and facebook groups and you'll see first hand how you finding a good samaritan to help you out and give you some rent deal in perpetuity (you got that in writing, I hope?) is absolutely the exception - not the norm.

Lotta problems with San Diego, and a lot of good stuff - sweeping generalizations on either end are asanine and more to grind a personal axe than to present a fully formed understanding of the socioeconomics of the absolute fever dream life is in So Cal in 2022. There are trends, and things might move a direction, but its interlaced with the economy, the military presence, the border, the beaches, social media, old money, racial tensions running a hundred years deep, displaced native cultures, a shrinking coastline gentrification social media FOMO Americana and a hundred other parts of our country that makes this whole thing a fuckin soup that you can't really wrap up in a few short sentences about your visit to Ocean Beach.

Very solid perspective, Greg. I have been deliberately facetious at times in this thread -- probably sh!tposting and oversharing more than usual due to my anxieties about graduating next winter. I am lucky (yes the rental agreement is in writing, what once seemed like a silly afterthought now radically valuable) and will eventually be able to buy a place with income from an engineering job -- it will just take a couple more years to save a huge down payment. It seems like the goalpost gets further and further for the middle class to achieve "the american dream". 

I don't pop my head outside my work very often thus my naivete on these issues. It took others' posts for me to make the connection between a van lifer looking to visit a nice city and the ugliness of people cast adrift and trying to survive.

Not that I haven't read my fair share of long-winded academic tomes, but the California Department of Housing and Community Development put up a very informative interactive page speaking to many of the dynamics you listed:

2022 Statewide Housing Plan

Some staggering statistics in there. Not to mention a direct example of Not My Name's, $40k income scenario:

Apparently the math doesn't add up so well when half your income is spent on housing!

The median singe-family home price in San Diego County went from $350k in 2012 to $850k today:

Are homes a financial investment or a place for families to live??

And, is this a climbing forum or not ??? Sorry for epic thread drift.

jt newgardwrote:

These San Diego threads do seem to escalate. Did anyone check if Kevin W recovered from the 20 page local climbing thread a while back?

I guess the real question to ask is, why are so many people living in vans? Where did it all go wrong for the middle class here in CA? We've all heard the stats, many people moving away to make a better life. It's like the Grapes of Wrath but in reverse! 

Because the whole world has been moving to parts of the Pacific coast for hundreds of years. Since we don't have a housing density like Manhattan island the prices went up. Options are to live far from the coast or live three to a bedroom, or move away from So Cal and the Bay Area. Some people do all of that now, thankfully. It is not an option to become Seattle or the Bay area with tents covering every foot of parks and beaches. Southern California has the population of many of the states of the inland South West. Our politicians have allowed unchecked homelessness. Lobbying groups like the ACLU demanded it. It is impossible to build enough housing to house the millions that want to live here. There are finally elected people making statements about involuntarily sheltering and treating long term mentally ill and substance abusers. That should have been done decades ago. 

By the way, your rent deal in perpetuity (you got that in writing?) probably wasn't written by a lawyer or notarized and the owner will renege on it when he feels like it or dies. Or he/she moves back in. Or moves his family in. It's unlikely to last for 20 years. My former house mate had the same deal, until the owner moved in and kicked the renter out (he deserved it). Former housemate didn't want to spend the money to sue. We have rent control now. It's max 10% increase a year-until you move out. And just cause is needed to give 30 or 60 day notice. But there are many exceptions to what just cause is. I know I come across sounding mean, but there are some expensive places that it makes no sense to live without the means. And most of So Cal is one of those places. If I could get a good paying job in a cheaper metro that I could tolerate I'd consider taking it. 

Adam Burch wrote:

Guys, I live in Poway, so basically I live inside MOunt woodson.  Don't bother coming there, it's important.  It's mine, always has been, always will be.  I'm a grown man.  One day my hair will be gray.  Will I stop then?  LOL NO IT'LL  BE TIME TO RAMP IT UP.

The punch line is go bouldering in Mexico or climb at mission gorge, but then drive back to wherever you live now.

I exclusively climb at Deerhorn

thus, I do not climb.

Greg Daviswrote:

I exclusively climb at Deerhorn

thus, I do not climb.

Haven’t you heard? Deerhorn is the new santee

jt newgardwrote:

These San Diego threads do seem to escalate. Did anyone check if Kevin W recovered from the 20 page local climbing thread a while back?

I guess the real question to ask is, why are so many people living in vans? Where did it all go wrong for the middle class here in CA? We've all heard the stats, many people moving away to make a better life. It's like the Grapes of Wrath but in reverse! 

JT--research Prop 13 and think about it a bit. Definitely one piece of the puzzle. I got hit with a $700/mo increase this month in North County.

Sprinkle McSparklecamswrote:

JT--research Prop 13 and think about it a bit. Definitely one piece of the puzzle. I got hit with a $700/mo increase this month in North County.

Hey I met you in Joshua Tree, there was some church group that had kids rapelling off the sketchiest anchor I had yet seen. I can't ever forget that user name lol.

As an example of get off my lawn: years ago you could park on mount Woodson road to climb Woodson. Now it’s permit only or tow away. 

Diego Climberwrote:

It is impossible to build enough housing to house the millions that want to live here. 

False.

Lack of sufficient housing stock is a choice.  A deliberate, pre-meditated choice by existing landowners using government power to their own benefit.

JaredGwrote:

False.

Lack of sufficient housing stock is a choice.  A deliberate, pre-meditated choice by existing landowners using government power to their own benefit.

It's a choice to be poor too.

JaredGwrote:

False.

Lack of sufficient housing stock is a choice.  A deliberate, pre-meditated choice by existing landowners using government power to their own benefit.

Yes and no. Residents push back against demolishing houses to build multi family multi unit. But it is happening right now. Zoning is out the window. There would need to be Judge Dredd style 100 story mega city blocks with 10,000 units each to accommodate demand in so cal.

To speak to the housing stock issue. Every 8 years the state comes up with a Regional Housing Needs Assessment (RHNA). We are gonna come up way short during the current one (2016-2024) as only about half of the 1.2 million units goal have been constructed. Local governments zoned for enough units, but then dragged their feet on following through on permits. Labor shortages, rising construction costs, and complicated financing are cited as reasons for further shortages. The 2024-2032 RHNA calls for 2.5 million units which would then be a 5x increase in rate of new housing construction to what we actually achieved in the past 8 years! So THEORETICALLY, expect to see more housing construction in the near future!

There is even a recently-created state Housing Accountability Unit that enforces local governments to permit these constructions. You can e-mail the accountability unit and get copies of non-compliance letters they might be sending to your neighborhood.

Personally I would hope to see more "urban infill" type projects. I don't need SPRAWL -- a.k.a. McMansion, big backyard, and the accompanying murderous over-paved super highways characteristic of the modern suburban hellscape. (Unless we can somehow turn the McMansion beneath south Woodson into a climber compound)

It is encouraging to see variety of state incentives aimed at encouraging sustainable and affordable development!

This post brought to you by my optimistic side ....... haha ........... the pessimistic side is looking to acquire a nice boulder out in jtree to ride out the housing apocalypse, or maybe call it quits on the whole climbing thing and return to the Midwest, a magical land where water still falls from the sky.

ALL state and local money for housing only makes the state more expensive for most people, not less expensive.  The government is extremely wasteful at housing.  

The new laws that make it easier to build units may work, as long as the government does NOT subsidize any of it.  This does come with condition of providing NO parking, and making  neighborhoods less livable.

The density bonus laws are poorly written and are a giveaway to rich builders who hire expensive lawyers in order to ruin neighborhoods.

Well if you don’t sell or build higher but your neighbors  do , they ruin it. Sellers who make a fortune don’t think they ruined it. The single family homes will be more on the outskirts of the taller metropolis.