Who is allowed to be a developer?

Simple enough question… who is allowed to develop any given climbing area?

I’m going on vacation next week, and I’m a sucker for virgin rock, and have an eye for spotting fixed lines. Is it “ok” for me to start developing? A little bit about me: my friends describe me as a “trad-Chad,” meaning I’m all about the traditional ethics and I know everything about anything. I’m going to a place with no specific guide book, and I’ll post on the local climbing Facebook page to ask for any willing partners who are also fans of virgin rock like myself. Is it acceptable for me to place a few bolts?

Others probably have more knowledge on this subject but there is a big difference between opening new lines on an existing crag and opening an entirely new area.

If one is just adding a line, then asking the local community would probably be the way to go. There might be a reason why a potential route hasn't been climbed or bolted before.

If one is scouting completely new crags, then it's an entirely different ball game with access related issues.

As long as you’ve looked hard for any claims to the area and there isn’t any, I see no issues. Even then, in all reality who has priority over you anyways. Just because someone has spotted it or been a local for x amount of years doesn’t mean it’s theirs to develop. The person who deserves to develop an area is the one who goes out and puts in the work. However, since you are visiting, don’t just blot the thing without developing a climbers trail, belay ledge, and a poor cleaning of the route. Bolting is the easy part… Treat it like your own home crag. All that said I would look into the local practices with hardware and what not and try to keep with their standards, unless they’re garbage (**cough** **cough** wedge bolts).
anyone should be stoked they get to climb a new route! 

No one controls who develops climbing areas or puts up which routes in those areas. It's usually the first person to discover the rock and put the time in. This unregulated free for all has disturbed some, especially if their style of climbing is not represented.

In most places, you don’t need a permit or certification to allow you to put up new routes. If you want to, you just do.

BUT… I have rarely (never?) seen a great route put up by a fly-by visitor bolter. Just saying.

Maybe this is a kind of virgin area where amazing lines are just somehow never come under radar of the local community. Bc there are hardly any climbers in the area… but otherwise, I have my doubts about the “worthiness” of this vacation-FAing. 

Curmudgeon Donwrote:

Simple enough question… who is allowed to develop any given climbing area?

I’m going on vacation next week, and I’m a sucker for virgin rock, and have an eye for spotting fixed lines. Is it “ok” for me to start developing? A little bit about me: my friends describe me as a “trad-Chad,” meaning I’m all about the traditional ethics and I know everything about anything. I’m going to a place with no specific guide book, and I’ll post on the local climbing Facebook page to ask for any willing partners who are also fans of virgin rock like myself. Is it acceptable for me to place a few bolts?

Do you identify as a developer?

Wow, this thread is a bit disturbing. There is no way to speak generally on this topic, you need to find out what the customs are locally in the area you're visiting.  

For example here in RRG we have many different land entities, all with their own rules,  Muir and Graining Fork a permit is necessary,  RRGCC property notification is required prior to development,  National Forest has a full bolting ban.  

As some others said the practice of vacation bolting sometimes result in routes that are out of character for the area or end up getting chopped, hopefully the line you find isn't something that no one bothered to bolt because it's low quality or a squeeze job, which is often the case at more well established sport crags. In these cases ask yourself if adding another line will add to the overall quality of the crag.  

This post also begs the question, have you placed bolts for climbing before, if the answer is no, you probably shouldn't start at some area you know nothing about with no mentorship.  

DrRockso RRGwrote:

Wow, this thread is a bit disturbing. There is no way to speak generally on this topic, you need to find out what the customs are locally in the area you're visiting.  

For example here in RRG we have many different land entities, all with their own rules,  Muir and Graining Fork a permit is necessary,  RRGCC property notification is required prior to development,  National Forest has a full bolting ban.  

As some others said the practice of vacation bolting sometimes result in routes that are out of character for the area or end up getting chopped, hopefully the line you find isn't something that no one bothered to bolt because it's low quality or a squeeze job, which is often the case at more well established sport crags. In these cases ask yourself if adding another line will add to the overall quality of the crag.  

He's trolling Trad Man in that other thread.

Tradibanwrote:

Do you identify as a developer?

FAist! Bolts for freedom, bolts for all!

1out of 10 troll

Anyone can "develop." Face it, you don't even need a high school diploma to drill a hole in a rock and tighten a bolt. Any dumbass can do it. You should not be a visitor-driller at any established climbing area unless you are super familiar with the scene and the existing routes and even then, are you really? In terms of new rock? Boltless is the way to go. You are not opening an amusement park for entitled gym climbers, are you?

S Twrote:

1out of 10 troll

No way, that’s a solid 10/10 for flying so far under the radar, even an admin got snookered. That’s the Platonic ideal of trolling. 

Tradibanwrote:

He's trolling Trad Man in that other thread.

Gotta love being called a troll by Tradiban. Is the pot calling the kettle black?

This is a new thread Trad. What happens in a thread stays in the thread. We are here to have mature discourse about how I can start to identify as a developer.

You must first kiss the scepter of he who does sittith at the throne. Then one must not toucheth thou hallow stone until it has been blessed by the almighty.

Only once he has received thou's blessing may he devout his time to becoming a developer. 

just the tip

This could create more problems than actual benefits.

Like if you're just there for a few days/weeks, I don't see how you can get the bigger picture and actually start something that it thoughtful, makes sense in the region/area context and that will be picked up later and end up with something  consistent and enjoyable. Chances are you'll put a few bolts in, leave and then nothing much will come of it. Or maybe some more haphazard "development" will happen and lead to something decent (or kind of a mess). That in itself doesn't need to be the end of the world....

... but maybe you start something behind the back of some land owner/manager, they get pissed at stuff being done on their land without their knowledge/consent, and then you make it that much harder to secure access later for people who are actually there for the long haul, wiling to put the time & effort beyond just brushing a few holds & drilling a few holds (e.g. trail, securing access, documenting shits, raising funds for better hardware, etc.

So please don't. Why not use trees or whatever natural anchors you can find? Are there not enough protetactable lines that you MUST start putting up mixted stuff everywhere? Please reconsider.

Make sure bolting is allowed by the land owner 1st. I would suspect that if you found a virgin rock most likely someone local had looked at it, climbed it.  It would most likely be bolted of it is legal. 

climber patwrote:

Make sure bolting is allowed by the land owner 1st. I would suspect that if you found a virgin rock most likely someone local had looked at it, climbed it.  It would most likely be bolted of it is legal. 

Everyone says this and I’m fairly convinced it’s 100% BS at this point. The amount of virgin rock still even around the Front range is jarring. The same holds true in developing as it does cragging - if you’re willing to hike a bit, you’ll typically avoid people. I’ve found multiple entire areas with super quality lines that were untouched and <=25 minutes away from the nearest trail/parking area in the last year alone.

The ultimate ethic is to place your own bolts then chop them!

Tal Mwrote:

Everyone says this and I’m fairly convinced it’s 100% BS at this point. The amount of virgin rock still even around the Front range is jarring. The same holds true in developing as it does cragging - if you’re willing to hike a bit, you’ll typically avoid people. I’ve found multiple entire areas with super quality lines that were untouched and <=25 minutes away from the nearest trail/parking area in the last year alone.

I already did those routes 30 years ago, trust me