New and Experienced climbers over 50 #21

phylp phylp wrote:

Degenerative disk disease seems to run in my family, I was diagnosed with it in my lower back in my late thirties. My back was at its absolute worse when I had a two hours driving commute every day, and a job which kept me at a desk or chair for most of the day.  Had a lot of back pain and sciatica in those days.  Like Montoya says, sitting is terrible for your low back.  These days I'm reasonably pain free.  The most important thing I've found is to do hamstring stretch every day, followed by proper body mechanics for bending and lifting, and increasing core strength. Ice in the evenings is a ritual for many of my body parts (I ice knees, shoulders, and low back, depending on what's worst for the day ;-)

 It's really worth seeing a orthopedist/physiatrist and getting a Rx for 12 weeks of PT.  You will learn a big repertoire of exercises and stretches for your low back.  These days, the things that irritate my back are gardening (too much bending involved, even when done properly), and climbing days that require a lot of downhill through big talus.  And of course, very long days in the car on road trips.

Phylp I shared your post with Tony as a gentle nudge that sitting doesn’t make things better.  I wish he’d return to PT but I have the feeling that he will do so after this upcoming surgery.  At that point he will have half a shot at feeling better. 

I am in Auburn for the week and have been sleuthing for some answers to some persistent health issues.  The one thing I did not want to consider was that wearing my Whoop 24/7 might be affecting me.  I have loved this wearable, and my understanding was the EMF emissions were minimal, unlike the FitBit which I had to take off immediately.

I ran into a bunch of posts on a Whoop thead similar to this one:  ”Gosh, I really appreciate finding your post. I have been assured that Whoop emits very tiny amounts of EMFs that I shouldn't worry about, yet over the last two weeks that I have been wearing the band my energy levels have just tanked. Badly. There's just no way to know what's causing it, but I suspect it's the Whoop. In the past I have not been able to tolerate FitBit or Apple Watch for any length of time.”

So, I asked a friend of mine who is a Certified Electromagnetic Radiation Specialist if he would measure the readings on my Whoop.  He responded :”It has an RFR transmitter in it. See report attached.  Same basic frequency as WiFi.  I suggest you avoid it for a full month and note what changes occur.”  

So, ok, but I’d still like a reading.  It is off my arm for a month,  

——

It’s hard to suffer from vague symptoms, but ones that are so debilitating.  Even if you just want to live a cleaner life, less chemicals, less pollutants…. It costs MORE to do with less. It has taken a long time to convince Tony that my Whole Foods shopping and organic produce is not about being a privileged yuppie, but about just trying to find food and products that are more or less safe.   I don’t mind eating the food he brings home from Walmart… but if given a choice, I’ll try to find organic.  Grass fed.  But it pisses me off… to pay extra to leave the bug spray off.  To find cheese that isn’t full of plastics… etc.  

I”m not sure, but I’m guessing that the milk that was delivered to our door every morning, in glass bottles, back in 1960, came from cows that were not hormonally injected, food that was not sprayed… in fact, I knew that dairy very well.  Visited those cows from time to time.  What’s in milk today? 

So, while I’m focused, and my doctor has run a crazy bunch of tests recently… one was for Environmental Toxins.  The first test came back so high in everything, benzenes, styrenes, gasoline products, parabens, etc that he repeated the test.  The one chemical that frustrated me was phthalates… because I am so careful with all cosmetics, things I eat, whatever I put onto my skin.  My phthalate levels were at the 100% in the red zone.  Dangerously high.  WHY?  It was pointed out to me that one of the few prescription drugs I take, but have to take, is loaded with phthalates.  I’m literally eating phthalates with every meal.  My insulin has creosote as a preservative.  How do you win this game?

As part of my ‘feel better’ campaign I had our tap water tested here in Joshua Tree.  The results came back with moderate to high levels of arsenic and uranium.  Uranium seems to be everywhere around here… I’m not too worried about that.  The arsenic isn’t good news.  

If only I could see the eye-roll from Russ right now.  And I would go ahead and roll mine, too… if I wasn’t trying so hard to feel better.  

I guess I am sharing this because it’s part of my journey… as a climber who wants to be healthy enough to keep on climbing.  We have traded a lot of information here over the last few years.  Also because, you never know, it might help someone else.  It would be nice if my own experience here could spare someone else all the sleuthing for answers.  I pray that just removing my Whoop, and eliminating unnecessary EMF exposure, will help.  

Lori Milas wrote:

Phylp I shared your post with Tony as a gentle nudge that sitting doesn’t make things better.  I wish he’d return to PT but I have the feeling that he will do so after this upcoming surgery.  At that point he will have half a shot at feeling better. 

Sitting on the cushioned couch is fine for me as long as I have my legs elevated on an ottoman. I wish him all the best.  It sucks being in pain, I'm really lucky that my stuff is very controllable.  I know what triggers it and I do a ton of maintenance stuff.  LOL, I feel like 90% of my life revolves around hiking and climbing, training for hiking and climbing, recovering from hiking and climbing, rehabbing injuries from hiking and climbing, and doing laundry after hiking and climbing!

Lori Milas wrote:

If only I could see the eye-roll from Russ right now.  

It would be withering.  

As to milk and chems and all that... the only reason I am the figure of health I am today is from my steady diet of steroids, growth hormones, antibiotics, and long chain fuckness obtained from milk, cheese, chicken, and spraying powerful deterrents my garden.  Prove me wrong...

Seriously though, the more you know, the more fucked you think you are.  It all boils down to genetics.  Some people fill their carcass with the best stuff on earth and die early or just spiral into the sod with a miserable last 20 or 30 years.  Other people pollute their "temple" every day with liquor, Walmart specials, and bacon wrapped glyphosate and live to be 100 with a sound mind.  Go figure.

Russ Walling wrote:

It would be withering.  

As to milk and chems and all that... the only reason I am the figure of health I am today is from my steady diet of steroids, growth hormones, antibiotics, and long chain fuckness obtained from milk, cheese, chicken, and spraying powerful deterrents my garden.  Prove me wrong...

Seriously though, the more you know, the more fucked you think you are.  It all boils down to genetics.  Some people fill their carcass with the best stuff on earth and die early or just spiral into the sod with a miserable last 20 or 30 years.  Other people pollute their "temple" every day with liquor, Walmart specials, and bacon wrapped glyphosate and live to be 100 with a sound mind.  Go figure.

I know I can count on you for that positive uplifting note of encouragement Russ, and that’s why I post here on MP.      I don’t know why I got dealt the hand I did health wise, but I have to say on the plus side I’m strong, and I’m climbing harder and better than I ever expected to at 68. It makes no sense to me. And as I drive around Rocklin right now, my old hometown, and sit in  massive traffic just to go 1 mile, I remember this claustrophobic feeling I used to get of just wanting to find some space—the need to get out… so on the flipside of some of the health struggles is incredible gratitude for Joshua Tree.

Yesterday we were at Folsom Lake and oh my God I had forgotten. There were easily 1,000 cars parked in a big concrete parking lot with the boat launch and maybe 100 boats in the water, probably more, shoulder to shoulder picnickers on the ground, 95° and no break in the heat at 7 pm , trash everywhere and no one seemingly aware of this precious resource of nature here. This would not fly in Joshua Tree where we are so careful not to step on a tiny seedling lest we harm the environment. Neither here nor there just… Astonishment.

Buff Johnson wrote:

possibly OT, but anyone have good rehab ideas for the lower back?

climbing & skiing were good for it, but my love for snowmachine riding beat the crap out of it.

now I'm (feeling) old...

Everyone is sorta right.  But...

My recommendation is to ignore any advice here and find yourself a good Physical Therapist.  They will figure out where the imbalance of strength and flexibility is in your body and give you exercises to fix and maintain it.  Everything else is just suggestions from the peanut gallery.

BTW I am not just being crotchety (I don't think I'm allowed, as I'm one of the youngsters on this thread at barely 52).  I speak from experience.  I have had debilitating lower back issues for many years, and PT has given me back climbing and life more than once.

Was it Phyl that said you need to put in a lot of work to maintain it?  I could not agree more.  Good PT is the opposite of modern medicine where you take a pill to feel better.  They just show you what to do and then you need to do it, probably for years.  It will be both uncomfortable and boring.  But it will work.

GO

went camping as part of my rehab... 

 climbing was steep but easy. We just did a single 3 pitch 5,7. I ran the 1st two pitches together and Isa led the steep 3rd pitch. 

Bernie was a wet happy dog today... 

GabeO wrote:

Was it Phyl that said you need to put in a lot of work to maintain it?  I could not agree more. 

Same here.  Getting it to feel better is just the first sttep.

I know quite a lot about rehab and exercises, and for anyone to prescribe a program is shooting in the dark without a diagnosis first. 

Did the injury happen all at once, or is degenerative becoming chronic?

See a good pt who works with active people. If they want you to see a spine doc they'll likely know who's good in your area, they'll have a working relationship with someone.

I have been admiring this beautiful rock and route. Does anyone recognize it? I’m assuming Yosemite… 

Kenneth Campbell wrote:

Lower back pain = cobra pose twice daily plus movement. I’m lucky I get to ride my bicycle to commute every day so regular movements plus my job. But the cobra pose is a necessity for me. 

Will give it a go.

For the collective PT... yeah....i know...

I've relegated myself to sleeping on the hardfloor, which actually does help alot.

I know this isn't the most motorized group, but snowmachining is a necessity where I'm at. 200 mile rides at 80-100mph, gives your legs a good workout, but just beats down your back.  At least my gas fills are much more manageable than a road trip in vehicle.

Had a fun meet up with Alan and S. Neoh at Mormon Hollow in western Mass.  Not quite a first introduction, but first time really climbing with them.  They were very patient with me as I had all kinds of family and friends along too.  I did get in four routes, including three leads.  The fourth route was a TR those guys set up that everyone in my party (even the kids were able to do the fourth class start) enjoyed.

Mormon Hollow is a fun little crag!  Quite a nice selection of routes, and plenty of space for the little ones to go exploring.  My daughter's favorite part of the weekend was their "secret hideouts" - little caves she and her friend hung out in.

I will say that I enjoyed all the routes, and found that all of them required a fair bit of more advanced technique to go at the grade.  For example the 5.6 "zigzag crack" was supposed to be a warmup (I thought).  But among four of my party who are all experienced climbers, I was the only one to make it to the top!  And that involved no very strenuous moves, but quite a fair collection of non-trivial wide and flaring crack technique.  It would be a fine 5.6 at Vedawoo!

I definitely did not get to all the routes that looked appealing, so I hope to go back sometime.  And it was great to chat with a couple of great local Over 50s!  Hopefully I can return there another time in the not too distant future!

Here's a pic of the three of us:

GO

Lori Milas wrote:

I have been admiring this beautiful rock and route. Does anyone recognize it? I’m assuming Yosemite…

I believe that is Tioga Wall

https://www.mountainproject.com/area/110714183/tioga-wall

GabeO wrote:

Had a fun meet up with Alan and S. Neoh at Mormon Hollow in western Mass.  Not quite a first introduction, but first time really climbing with them.  They were very patient with me as I had all kinds of family and friends along too.  I did get in four routes, including three leads.  The fourth route was a TR those guys set up that everyone in my party (even the kids were able to do the fourth class start) enjoyed.

Mormon Hollow is a fun little crag!  Quite a nice selection of routes, and plenty of space for the little ones to go exploring.  My daughter's favorite part of the weekend was their "secret hideouts" - little caves she and her friend hung out in.

I will say that I enjoyed all the routes, and found that all of them required a fair bit of more advanced technique to go at the grade.  For example the 5.6 "zigzag crack" was supposed to be a warmup (I thought).  But among four of my party who are all experienced climbers, I was the only one to make it to the top!  And that involved no very strenuous moves, but quite a fair collection of non-trivial wide and flaring crack technique.  It would be a fine 5.6 at Vedawoo!

I definitely did not get to all the routes that looked appealing, so I hope to go back sometime.  And it was great to chat with a couple of great local Over 50s!  Hopefully I can return there another time in the not too distant future!

Here's a pic of the three of us:

GO

Gabe!  Who’s who?  Love the pic!

Thank you, Sam.  There is a river nearby… do you still think it’s Tioga Wall?  Is this typical rock from that area?  (  I’ll have whatever he’s having.  :-)  )

It was a very pleasant day at Mormon--turned out to be great conditions despite not a very promising earlier forecast. Amazingly few bugs---often an issue there in June. We couldn't make it out to the City of Rocks for the 'meet up' there, so had our own mini-one for the MA contigent

It is Soon (Sneoh) on the left, me in the middle, Gabe on the right. Ward, who, lives not far 'up the hill' from Mormon was in NH, so wasn't able to join us. Eric Engberg is currently on the 'injured reserve' so also couldn't participate.

GabeO wrote:

Had a fun meet up with Alan and S. Neoh at Mormon Hollow in western Mass.  

Here's a pic of the three of us:

GO

I love this so much.  Really, one of the best parts of climbing - spending the day having fun with friends old and new  

Lori Milas wrote:

Gabe!  Who’s who?  Love the pic!

Thank you, Sam.  There is a river nearby… do you still think it’s Tioga Wall?  Is this typical rock from that area?  (  I’ll have whatever he’s having.  :-)  )

I’ve never been but the rock looked familiar from pictures I’ve seen, really does look amazing. I sent it to a friend who has been a few times and he said he thought it was Tioga Wall. I know it’s a local crag for Lonnie and he has done a bunch of hard FAs there.

Sam Cieply wrote:

I believe that is Tioga Wall

https://www.mountainproject.com/area/110714183/tioga-wall

Yep, just outside the park on the east side.  in Lee Vining Canyon on the road side below the green bridge, across from the ice routes.

Alan Rubin wrote:

It was a very pleasant day at Mormon--turned out to be great conditions despite not a very promising earlier forecast. Amazingly few bugs---often an issue there in June. We couldn't make it out to the City of Rocks for the 'meet up' there, so had our own mini-one for the MA contigent

It is Soon (Sneoh) on the left, me in the middle, Gabe on the right. Ward, who, lives not far 'up the hill' from Mormon was in NH, so wasn't able to join us. Eric Engberg is currently on the 'injured reserve' so also couldn't participate.

Really was great conditions.  Dry even in the cracks, despite the rain we've been having.

Eric, hope you are off the bench and back on the rock soon.  Would be fun to meet you too Ward.  Definitely we should get whatever crew we can together while we're still all above the sod!

GO

Sam Cieply wrote:

I’ve never been but the rock looked familiar from pictures I’ve seen, really does look amazing. I sent it to a friend who has been a few times and he said he thought it was Tioga Wall. I know it’s a local crag for Lonnie and he has done a bunch of hard FAs there.

Sam, if we connect up in Mammoth on my June or July trips, we can head up there if the weather is right.  The rock is spectacular, beautiful featured granite.  Fortunately there are a bunch of climbs on the left side of the main wall that are a bit easier, most put up by Dan McDevitt.  I think only some of them are logged in MP, but I can get the info. Approach is very easy, about 15 minutes down hill?  Another wall with similar rock right in that area is Transpire Wall.  That has a 3 minute approach, right off the road on the north side but uphill, above the traffic, so it's actually pretty nice.