A sign of the times? (please help me understand the world we now live in)

(This post isn't intended to be a rant, but as an invitation for a thoughtful discussion about climbing and where it's headed.)

I'm about to hike out some gear from a rock formation, found a pocket of cell signal on the path, and decided to try to start a dialog about an issue. It's not a new issue, but one which seems to be getting a whole lot worse.

In, I believe, the1972 Chuinard catalog, Doug Robinson wrote an article (or rather a plea!) to adopt "clean climbing" (notice I didn't say free climbing, which had long since been a thing). The aim wasn't just to sell a bunch of new kit which could get you up the rock with less back ache, but to reduce the impact humans were having on their environs. Keep in mind that back then there were only about a hundred active rock climbers and this had already become an issue. Somewhat recently Chuinard himself called the clean climbing effort a complete and utter failure. At the time, I thought he was just being a little too romantic, but after witnessing the results of some recent development I'm starting to agree.

This is the first time I've been to this area so I can't comment about the development that's happened in the entire canyon (I'm not going to reveal the place until I've at least attempted to contact those responsible in person), but this rock has very recently been developed (a term I wouldn't use for FAs I've done, but does apply here) and been developed in a manner I've struggled to describe (bizarre? thoughtless? maddening?)

On my first day I climbed a smaller rock which has been completely grid bolted except for the cracks, each with an anchor. This doesn't bother me; to each his own and sometimes it's nice to have a quick approach to a small crag especially for those who just want to smoke bowls and climb moderates. After climbing one civilized route there, my gaze immediately turned to the next rock which was 3x the height and highly fractured so we hiked up. Curiously, there was a fixed line so I decided to lead what I assumed at that moment to be someone's top rope solo exercise route. It began just fine, but after about 50m bolts started to appear. I summited without clipping a single one. There were rap anchors, but my partner and I could tell a single 70 wouldn't reach so we used the fixed line. My partner said someone was going to turn it into a sport crag which my brain couldn't accept (not that I could come up with an alternative explanation). After that sour note, we bumped up to the next higher formation which appeared to be completely untouched (thankfully) and did what people back in the day would call rock climbing, putting up about 28 FAs in 10 days (not continuous; we were free only few days a week.)

Late one day, being very tired after three days of fighting loose rock and lichen, we decided to climb one of the "sport" lines (on the second tier wall that has the fixed line). It was a very casual lead with gear. I approached it like any FA and saw the 3rd pitch went into a gully with bolts haphazardly strewn about including one on a huge rock just resting on the dirt. I instead went straight up which was a better way out and would say the entire route as God made it was good, but what came after not so much. Scoping out the rest of the madness it was clear that the modus operandi of our genius bolt gunner was to first bolt an anchor in a gully, then bolt downward (perhaps alternating between left and right hands to make things interesting). The rock is littered with these rap stations every single one of which is in a poor location; usually a dirty gully full of loose rocks and rope snags, and some of which are just over 35m apart necessitating further epithet-laden shenanigans.

I've already gone mad trying to understand who would look at this fractured wall you could plug so much gear in to make it look like a Christmas nativity and think it's a good idea to grid bolt it via anchors in gullies, so I won't speculate. FWIW, most of my top anchors for bringing my 2nd were a bowline using the climbing rope and no further gear was necessary, let alone a rotary hammer drill.

Unfortunately, my friends, the story gets even worse. I've spotted a bolted boulder (one bolt with anchors) and a bolted 3rd class ramp with two rap anchors I'm pretty sure I could solo with combat boots and carrying a hot beverage in hand. Of course, none of these bolts are camo'd.

The trail was equally thoughtless. It's a lot easier to just hike to the wall instead of go up and down and up and down and across and up via what was probably originally disconnected elk trails later civilized by tons of tree pruning. This is in the desert, BTW, so these efforts will have decades-long effects.

Now I'm not going to launch into a diatribe about FA ethics (at least not here), but briefly, I happen to believe in a definition of climbing which roughly accords with the Oxford English Dictionary's definition: going up. I don't have an issue with bolts per-se and even placed (a camo'd) one on lead on the same wall. However, I doubt even the least adventurous rap bolting bolt clipping meathead could claim this is work to be proud of. Not only is this a poor show from the perspective of impact on public lands; they're just crap. I'm an anti-authoritarian and toolish behavior makes me cringe, but a man's work still reflects on that man and that's a law of the universe and not just some dweeb on the internet trying to be holier than thou.

I'm more bewildered than anything and feel like I'm just out of the loop. My friend describes me as someone who harkens from an era that no longer exists like I'm some kind of endangered species. I've been climbing for dacades and tried to approach it thoughtfully and with humility. I don't claim to be humble by nature, but real stakes enforce that naturally. In my last climb here, which I did yesterday on someone else's gear (which I wasn't familiar with), I had a nut lift out on a hard move leaving me scrambling a lichened face to find pro up higher or face severe ankle breaking consequences! Fortunately, I did find a small pocket for pro after pulling out a rock and was blessed to get another on-sight, but the point I'm making is how such experiences keep you humble and mindful. 

We seem to live in a society that values inclusivity above everything else, but what about the flip side? If all the climbing I had done to this point were climbs such as these could I claim to be able to even climb a rock? I probably would given the lack of evidence to the contrary. I don't claim to be the best climber in the world, but I can point at a line and climb it, and I owe that to humility, mindfulness, and experience, of actual rock climbing. If you remove skill from rock climbing, what do you have left? I'd posit a contest of physical stegnth alone, in which case why not just lift in a gym instead of jumar your way to the top of Everest?

I guess I just don't get it!

As for the future of this area, had I my druthers the original developers will learn to rock climb, learn shame, and then proceed to do the good work of removing EVERY SINGLE BOLT they have thus far marred the rock with. A rap station on the FACE where a 70m can actually get you to the ground without extra shenanigans wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea, but nothing like that exists presently despite all the shiny anchors littered about. A better trail to the wall with some effort of environmental reclamation for the current one would also be welcome.

However, I'm not a diplomat and I doubt I could pursuade an Eskimo to wear a fur suit in the winter. I'm honestly at a loss what to do. I've considered naming routes like "Bolted cracks, boulders, and 3rd class scrambles make baby Jesus weep" but that's probably not fruitful (although I'm still very tempted due to my disagreeable nature). Also, I'm not local, and if I happened to step inside an insane asylum without knowing I'm probably not in the right to start complaining about table manners. 

This is troubling indeed. I kinda wish there were pictures, but maybe I don't. My guess is that there motivations are very similar to the motivations of some of the newer developers at the red. 

There are areas with a single line I would say is okay at best (presumably having 3 stars because there are no 1 star routes at the red and two stars are reserved for piles of particularly loose choss) that was put up in the 90s. I climb it, because I climb everything easy (<10b/c). They don't impress me but hey, maybe it's a rare warmup at the crag or I just want to take it easy and get some volume in. This often unremarkable climb is surrounded by many more lines, all put up in past decade, all of much much lesser quality, sandy, brittle, I break rock, often fail to find inspiring movement, clip the chains. Why was this bolted???

My hypothesies:

Hopeful me: someone wanted to offer more climbs at moderate grade level/provide climbs for groups, rainy day crag?

Realistic me: someone wants to look back at the end of their climbing life at one number: the number of FA's or FE's that they have 'generously' contributed to the community. Doug Reed doesn't remember all the lines he put up, hell, he doesn't even remember some of his acclaimed classics, so why should these new heroes bother themselves with consistent quality.

As for hopeful me, even he doesn't understand why you would bolt sandy choss lines for anyone, much less at a crag for beginners, unless you're trying to scare them off.

In your situation, I imagine it's the same motivation, but they don't climb trad

Another sign of the times, from lexico.com:

In recent years, Eskimo has come to be regarded as offensive (partly through the associations of the now discredited etymology ‘one who eats raw flesh’). The peoples inhabiting the regions from northwestern Canada to western Greenland call themselves Inuit

Konnor Kenneweg wrote:

This is troubling indeed. I kinda wish there were pictures, but maybe I don't. My guess is that there motivations are very similar to the motivations of some of the newer developers at the red. 

There are areas with a single line I would say is okay at best (presumably having 3 stars because there are no 1 star routes at the red and two stars are reserved for piles of particularly loose choss) that was put up in the 90s. I climb it, because I climb everything easy (<10b/c). They don't impress me but hey, maybe it's a rare warmup at the crag or I just want to take it easy and get some volume in. This often unremarkable climb is surrounded by many more lines, all put up in past decade, all of much much lesser quality, sandy, brittle, I break rock, often fail to find inspiring movement, clip the chains. Why was this bolted???

My hypothesies:

Hopeful me: someone wanted to offer more climbs at moderate grade level/provide climbs for groups, rainy day crag?

Realistic me: someone wants to look back at the end of their climbing life at one number: the number of FA's or FE's that they have 'generously' contributed to the community. Doug Reed doesn't remember all the lines he put up, hell, he doesn't even remember some of his acclaimed classics, so why should these new heroes bother themselves with consistent quality.

I think there is a lot of confirmation bias about new routes going in near old routes. First, this did occur pretty often before. Many crags had trad routes in the 70s and then in the 90s got sport routes between them (thinking smith/vantage). Also there are sport crags that had routes put in 90s and then had routes put in during the early 2000s (sinks/rumney/chek), it just seems like a phenomena now. If you were a new climber in the late 90s you wont notice the bolts added in 91 to a wall that existed in 70. I think there is also a lot of lost/incorrect history regarding FA dates. 

To the comment about quality, people having been bolting "garbage" since bolts became a thing. People just can't flame someone for FA "Unknown."

BITD people didn't have an internet audience, so they would just chop 'em.

Trad Man wrote:I summited without clipping a single one. There were rap anchors, but my partner After that sour note, we bumped up to the next higher formation which appeared to be completely untouched (thankfully) and did what people back in the day would call rock climbing, putting up about 28 FAs in 10 days

How’d the joke go, again?

How do you know when someone has an FA?

They’ll be sure to tell you about it each time they post on mountain project to assert their authority on a specific matter…

Glad you found a belay Trad Man. Sounded like you were struggling to find folks who wanted to climb with ya… can’t imagine why after a rant like that. Sounds like you are making friends with the Unaweep developer crew. Don’t they call themselves “The Gotez?”

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

I think there is a lot of confirmation bias about new routes going in near old routes. First, this did occur pretty often before. Many crags had trad routes in the 70s and then in the 90s got sport routes between them (thinking smith/vantage). Also there are sport crags that had routes put in 90s and then had routes put in during the early 2000s (sinks/rumney/chek), it just seems like a phenomena now. If you were a new climber in the late 90s you wont notice the bolts added in 91 to a wall that existed in 70. I think there is also a lot of lost/incorrect history regarding FA dates. 

To the comment about quality, people having been bolting "garbage" since bolts became a thing. People just can't flame someone for FA "Unknown."

I learned to climb at Smith more or less. Even though it's a destination for bolt clippers, the cracks remain bolt free and the raps are in sane locations.

What you say is true, however. At the lower gorge there is an "11a" bolted line next to a 10b crack of the same difficulty, plus obviously all the natural weaknesses went up first before the faces.

Again, I really don't have a problem with this. Speaking of humility again, I remember the first time I climbed Moondance I commented that there were a lot of bolts and it had obviously been retro-ed. Well, I nutmegged on the first bolt and ended up clipping all the bolts and hanging on at least half! Serves me right, I guess.

This wall isn't anything like the unprotectable soft tuft sheer walls at Smith that couldn't accept any pro except for the odd hook. Absolutely no attempt was seemingly made to rock climb here prior to my arrival. I fear from here things will only get worse. Force me to speculate I'd say it seems like the advent of the gym and the guide has basically severed any connection between skills learned in the past and what people consider "rock climbing" in the present.

Aaron K wrote:

I am familiar with the area in question, and while some of Trad Man's description was rather purple and exaggerated, I was also surprised by the bolted cracks that would go perfectly well on gear and the curiously located anchors ( unlike Trad Man I found a 70m sufficient to rap).

You're probably referring to a published route, not the one which was in mid-sportification. The published route I did didn't have short raps (although they were in terrible locations). Also I did hear about anchors being moved on that one in development, but it's still stupid to pre-rap routes like this or to just assume every route should be rappable. All of this nonsense could have been avoided by either leading routes (i.e. climbing them), or at the very least using temporary anchors and a little grey matter to scope out an ideal rap location if you lack the experience to get it right the first time. I dare you to justify any of the rap locations. Some of them can be fixed just by moving them twelve feet out out of a scree-infested gully.

The old method was to climb routes, rap on tat, and then if the place became popular enough to warrant a rap station, by then the best location for one would be known. Instead it seems someone is trying to make a name for themselves (and may well succeed).

Since you're local, maybe you can be the diplomat here and suggest a way to fix this mess or at least stem the tide of whatever you'd call this. 

suggest a way to fix this mess or at least stem the tide of whatever you'd call this.

Contact the land manager, rat the "developers" out and lobby for a bolting moratorium and permitting system. We all know this is the endgame of modern route "development." Might as well jump to it and skip the parts where hundreds more bolts get added and THEN there's a ban.

This "I'll bolt whatever and where I please on public land" is not going to end well. Might as well get the war started sooner than later. These days a person wants to get into new routing the first thing they ask is "which rotary hammer drill?" Then they go about comfortizing entire crags, trails, etc. Its really unbelievable, the sand in the shorts of people who think they have a right to "develop" public land. Get over yourselves.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

 Its really unbelievable, the sand in the shorts of people who think they have a right to "develop" public land. Get over yourselves.

You wanna come protest logging? Mining? Or the other stuff that is far more impactful on our public land. 

You wanna come protest logging? Mining? Or the other stuff that is far more impactful on our public land.

Oh, so you think climbers should have to pay to exploit public resources, like mining and logging companies do? Hmmm, no I don't think that will work but if climbers had to pay a per-bolt fee to the land manager, yeah that would help curtail the legions of bullshit bolts. But I'd be good with a more staid merit-based bolt proposal / approval system, and the tax payers foot the bill for admin, instead of a per bolt fee to the, cough, developer.

Trad Man wrote:

(This post isn't intended to be a rant, but as an invitation for a thoughtful discussion about climbing and where it's headed.)

I'm about to hike out some gear from a rock formation, found a pocket of cell signal on the path, and decided to try to start a dialog about an issue. It's not a new issue, but one which seems to be getting a whole lot worse.

In, I believe, the1972 Chuinard catalog, Doug Robinson wrote an article (or rather a plea!) to adopt "clean climbing" (notice I didn't say free climbing, which had long since been a thing). The aim wasn't just to sell a bunch of new kit which could get you up the rock with less back ache, but to reduce the impact humans were having on their environs. Keep in mind that back then there were only about a hundred active rock climbers and this had already become an issue. Somewhat recently Chuinard himself called the clean climbing effort a complete and utter failure. At the time, I thought he was just being a little too romantic, but after witnessing the results of some recent development I'm starting to agree.

This is the first time I've been to this area so I can't comment about the development that's happened in the entire canyon (I'm not going to reveal the place until I've at least attempted to contact those responsible in person), but this rock has very recently been developed (a term I wouldn't use for FAs I've done, but does apply here) and been developed in a manner I've struggled to describe (bizarre? thoughtless? maddening?)

On my first day I climbed a smaller rock which has been completely grid bolted except for the cracks, each with an anchor. This doesn't bother me; to each his own and sometimes it's nice to have a quick approach to a small crag especially for those who just want to smoke bowls and climb moderates. After climbing one civilized route there, my gaze immediately turned to the next rock which was 3x the height and highly fractured so we hiked up. Curiously, there was a fixed line so I decided to lead what I assumed at that moment to be someone's top rope solo exercise route. It began just fine, but after about 50m bolts started to appear. I summited without clipping a single one. There were rap anchors, but my partner and I could tell a single 70 wouldn't reach so we used the fixed line. My partner said someone was going to turn it into a sport crag which my brain couldn't accept (not that I could come up with an alternative explanation). After that sour note, we bumped up to the next higher formation which appeared to be completely untouched (thankfully) and did what people back in the day would call rock climbing, putting up about 28 FAs in 10 days (not continuous; we were free only few days a week.)

Late one day, being very tired after three days of fighting loose rock and lichen, we decided to climb one of the "sport" lines (on the second tier wall that has the fixed line). It was a very casual lead with gear. I approached it like any FA and saw the 3rd pitch went into a gully with bolts haphazardly strewn about including one on a huge rock just resting on the dirt. I instead went straight up which was a better way out and would say the entire route as God made it was good, but what came after not so much. Scoping out the rest of the madness it was clear that the modus operandi of our genius bolt gunner was to first bolt an anchor in a gully, then bolt downward (perhaps alternating between left and right hands to make things interesting). The rock is littered with these rap stations every single one of which is in a poor location; usually a dirty gully full of loose rocks and rope snags, and some of which are just over 35m apart necessitating further epithet-laden shenanigans.

I've already gone mad trying to understand who would look at this fractured wall you could plug so much gear in to make it look like a Christmas nativity and think it's a good idea to grid bolt it via anchors in gullies, so I won't speculate. FWIW, most of my top anchors for bringing my 2nd were a bowline using the climbing rope and no further gear was necessary, let alone a rotary hammer drill.

Unfortunately, my friends, the story gets even worse. I've spotted a bolted boulder (one bolt with anchors) and a bolted 3rd class ramp with two rap anchors I'm pretty sure I could solo with combat boots and carrying a hot beverage in hand. Of course, none of these bolts are camo'd.

The trail was equally thoughtless. It's a lot easier to just hike to the wall instead of go up and down and up and down and across and up via what was probably originally disconnected elk trails later civilized by tons of tree pruning. This is in the desert, BTW, so these efforts will have decades-long effects.

Now I'm not going to launch into a diatribe about FA ethics (at least not here), but briefly, I happen to believe in a definition of climbing which roughly accords with the Oxford English Dictionary's definition: going up. I don't have an issue with bolts per-se and even placed (a camo'd) one on lead on the same wall. However, I doubt even the least adventurous rap bolting bolt clipping meathead could claim this is work to be proud of. Not only is this a poor show from the perspective of impact on public lands; they're just crap. I'm an anti-authoritarian and toolish behavior makes me cringe, but a man's work still reflects on that man and that's a law of the universe and not just some dweeb on the internet trying to be holier than thou.

I'm more bewildered than anything and feel like I'm just out of the loop. My friend describes me as someone who harkens from an era that no longer exists like I'm some kind of endangered species. I've been climbing for dacades and tried to approach it thoughtfully and with humility. I don't claim to be humble by nature, but real stakes enforce that naturally. In my last climb here, which I did yesterday on someone else's gear (which I wasn't familiar with), I had a nut lift out on a hard move leaving me scrambling a lichened face to find pro up higher or face severe ankle breaking consequences! Fortunately, I did find a small pocket for pro after pulling out a rock and was blessed to get another on-sight, but the point I'm making is how such experiences keep you humble and mindful. 

We seem to live in a society that values inclusivity above everything else, but what about the flip side? If all the climbing I had done to this point were climbs such as these could I claim to be able to even climb a rock? I probably would given the lack of evidence to the contrary. I don't claim to be the best climber in the world, but I can point at a line and climb it, and I owe that to humility, mindfulness, and experience, of actual rock climbing. If you remove skill from rock climbing, what do you have left? I'd posit a contest of physical stegnth alone, in which case why not just lift in a gym instead of jumar your way to the top of Everest?

I guess I just don't get it!

As for the future of this area, had I my druthers the original developers will learn to rock climb, learn shame, and then proceed to do the good work of removing EVERY SINGLE BOLT they have thus far marred the rock with. A rap station on the FACE where a 70m can actually get you to the ground without extra shenanigans wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea, but nothing like that exists presently despite all the shiny anchors littered about. A better trail to the wall with some effort of environmental reclamation for the current one would also be welcome.

However, I'm not a diplomat and I doubt I could pursuade an Eskimo to wear a fur suit in the winter. I'm honestly at a loss what to do. I've considered naming routes like "Bolted cracks, boulders, and 3rd class scrambles make baby Jesus weep" but that's probably not fruitful (although I'm still very tempted due to my disagreeable nature). Also, I'm not local, and if I happened to step inside an insane asylum without knowing I'm probably not in the right to start complaining about table manners. 

Rest assured, "they" are the ones who "Don't get it". 

These shenanigans you describe are proliferating everywhere and eventually things will come to a head, from either dead gumbies or nasty land managers. 

I blame the "Me" generation and their "everyone can be what they want to be" delusions. Speaking out is the best thing to do.

Godspeed.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Contact the land manager, rat the "developers" out and lobby for a bolting moratorium and permitting system…

This "I'll bolt whatever and where I please on public land" is not going to end well.

Welcome to the Western Slope, where green energy be damned if it means developers can’t do what makes them feel whole and happy.
Cowboy up, get on yer goat, and make a huge fuss about what you read on mountain project concerning some guy’s Colorado vacation. Ain’t nothing more quintessentially trad and rad then to call the authorities.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

This "I'll bolt whatever and where I please on public land" is not going to end well. 

Agreed. 

And we have some of this going on in our own neck of the woods at Sugarloaf, Phantom Spires, etc. As far as I can tell though, it's a few old dudes doing the idiotic shit-bolting. 

Taking a look at the photos of the area, it’s a shame the prevalence of those bolted cracks. Mixed routes are a dying breed unfortunately, as they’re one of my favorite types of climbs. I love the unaweep area for how rugged it still feels in much of it - this seems pretty jarring IMO. Hopefully the OP is a huge exaggeration, but if it’s really rooted in some truth, that’s certainly troubling.

Tal M wrote:

Taking a look at the photos of the area, it’s a shame the prevalence of those bolted cracks. Mixed routes are a dying breed unfortunately, as they’re one of my favorite types of climbs. I love the unaweep area for how rugged it still feels in much of it - this seems pretty jarring IMO. Hopefully the OP is a huge exaggeration, but if it’s really rooted in some truth, that’s certainly troubling.

I know who the OP is and the area he’s referring to.  He’s exaggerating quite a bit to the point of being dishonest.

The OP knows who developed these routes but isn’t willing to speak with them, the local climbing community or the Western Colorado Climber’s Collation.

I find this very odd.

This post strikes me as bizarre on many levels.
I probably would sympathize with the premise, assuming the descriptions of malevolent, incompetent crack-bolting is congruent with reality.

Curmudgeon Don, are you implying this zone was my hoofiwork? You should try some of the routes I have developed sometime; I promise you the word "overbolted" will not appear in your Yelp review ;-)

Don't get me started on a tradder-than-thou nut-tool-measuring contest here, I'm already insufferable enough as is! :-D

F r i t z wrote: I'm already insufferable enough as is! :-D

Never thought this day would come… we are finally in agreement! Check out my tick-list, Mr Goat. I don’t climb. ;-)
I am a steward of these lands, and do not believe in white washing these beautiful faces. “Walls are meant for climbing,” and rocks are meant to be thrown.

Goat meat breakfast burritos are my fav :-D

F r i t z wrote:You should try some of the routes I have developed sometime…

Yee-ha-ha-ha

How do you know when somebody is a developer?

They’ll be sure to tell ya about it anytime they post on the proj!

Yet another pristine example.

The only thing that ever comes from climbers complaining to land managers about other climbers is loss of access. 

I’m calling BS on this post.  Example, climbing a route obviously in process of development and complaining about anchor placement.  Or maybe the fact that you admit you’re helicoptering in from out of town and judging the LOCAL developers.  Sounds like a guy that wants to humble brag what a strong trad climber they are - and damn everyone else.    Go home and complain about your own areas.