Unaweep Canyon - hydro plant being proposed

3500 gpm x 1440 minutes per day would be 5 million gal per day.  I saw elsewhere a quote of 900,000 gal/day evaporation rate.

So it could be the 5 million is just for the initial fill of one pond.

Better would be to vastly lower the evaporation rate by covering the surface.  I saw a show on a reservoir in LA that covered the entire surface with floating plastic balls to reduce evaporation, and also stop algea growth by blocking light.  Or dig the ponds deeper so less surface area is needed.  Maybe another idea could be floating PV panels.

Pasquale Verrastrowrote:

http://www.unaweep.weebly.com/

I run a canvassing company and was approached by locals who live in the canyon and I think y'all may find their perspective interesting. This is a tricky issue/ subject, and to approach it as if you know the answer definitively, I personally believe is lacking perspective. Y'all are toxic on here man, historically I'm also not immune from this. The cost/ benefit analysis on this project is immense. At what point do we weigh the costs of greater benefit over shadowing those of the few. I love this canyon, I purchased my first home so that I could be on a wall in under 30 minutes. I have put up many first ascents and engaged my wife hanging from a portaledge off the quarry wall. All stakeholders need to take a step back, breath and put personal wants and needs to the side for honest open discussion. I do believe however climbers should be considered lastly in the discussion as the lineage in this canyon is deep and historic our selfish desires to find enlightenment is of little matter to society.

Thank you for sharing this resource and information. Anyone remember the proposed Two Forks Dam South Platte project in the ‘80’s? Enough support was rallied against it and it didn’t happen, and an incredible area was spared. Obviously we are in an energy crisis, but wind and solar seem like much better alternatives for Colorado. 

ErikaNWwrote:

Thank you for sharing this resource and information. Anyone remember the proposed Two Forks Dam South Platte project in the ‘80’s? Enough support was rallied against it and it didn’t happen, and an incredible area was spared. Obviously we are in an energy crisis, but wind and solar seem like much better alternatives for Colorado. 

The water would be pumped to the top when wind and solar are in excess and then ready to use when those resources aren't available.  It's a battery to fill the gaps.  

Chris Michalowskiwrote:

The water would be pumped to the top when wind and solar are in excess and then ready to use when those resources aren't available.  It's a battery to fill the gaps.  

I find it hilarious how many people are so outspoken about climate activism and renewable energy and saving the world, yet how little they know about our capabilities and the tradeoffs.

As Chris points out, these facilities are used to store energy because renewables are very very variable in their output and you need to build a lot of buffers into the system.

Bernardo Fantiwrote:

I find it hilarious how many people are so outspoken about climate activism and renewable energy and saving the world, yet how little they know about our capabilities and the tradeoffs.

As Chris points out, these facilities are used to store energy because renewables are very very variable in their output and you need to build a lot of buffers into the system.

Here's a detailed explainer article for those who wish to know more about this:

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/12/10970858/flattening-duck-curve-renewable-energy

In short, the big weakness of solar is that solar energy production peaks midday, but power demand peaks in the evening.  This is called the "Duck Curve" based on the shape of the plots of energy demand and supply...look at the article and you'll see it.

There's also the inherent variability of wind power.

Addressing the time mismatch and reliability is essential to a transition to renewables. A big part will be smarter grids that can shift demand, and energy storage is another essential component. In terms of existing technology, pumped hydro is the only method of energy storage that is viable at large scale. Hence the value of these types of pumped storage projects.

Most pumped hydro projects being proposed today do not modify a river valley so they are not like traditional hydro dams.   They are just built on a large hill, with a constructed pond at the top and another at the bottom.

Here is a two part article on floating PV. I see this is being done in Portugal. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/12/26/floating-solar-on-pumped-hydro-part-1-evaporation-management-is-a-bonus/

There are a number of pumped hydro plants being proposed, but it is an extremely lengthy process to get one approved by many many agencies.  Perhaps 6-7 years just for approval, and then years more to build it.

Climbing or not this is a dumb idea. Hoover dam only generates 60% of the power it used to. Dams silt up and then have to be decommissioned at the cost of billions, not to mention the damage to the fisheries. 

I'd also like some cheap nuke power, please. New mini nuke plants are the only way we are going to pay for the undoing of all the damage we've done up to this point

Pasquale Verrastrowrote:

http://www.unaweep.weebly.com/

I run a canvassing company and was approached by locals who live in the canyon and I think y'all may find their perspective interesting. This is a tricky issue/ subject, and to approach it as if you know the answer definitively, I personally believe is lacking perspective. Y'all are toxic on here man, historically I'm also not immune from this. The cost/ benefit analysis on this project is immense. At what point do we weigh the costs of greater benefit over shadowing those of the few. I love this canyon, I purchased my first home so that I could be on a wall in under 30 minutes. I have put up many first ascents and engaged my wife hanging from a portaledge off the quarry wall. All stakeholders need to take a step back, breath and put personal wants and needs to the side for honest open discussion. I do believe however climbers should be considered lastly in the discussion as the lineage in this canyon is deep and historic our selfish desires to find enlightenment is of little matter to society.

How do you know when somebody has put up many first ascents?
…. they’ll be sure to tell you about it each time they post on mountain project.

Trad Manwrote:

Climbing or not this is a dumb idea. Hoover dam only generates 60% of the power it used to. Dams silt up and then have to be decommissioned at the cost of billions, not to mention the damage to the fisheries. 

I'd also like some cheap nuke power, please. New mini nuke plants are the only way we are going to pay for the undoing of all the damage we've done up to this point

this isn't a hydroelectric dam in the way that the hoover dam is. it's a battery that uses gravity as its 'electrolyte'. The pools at the top and bottom of the cliff do not have a silt load, thus there is no problem with a dam silting up.

though I do vehemently agree with your assessment of the necessity of nuclear power plants.

What's being hypocritical about wanting to protect a superb canyon from being despoiled.  There are certainly other places that Xcel can build power generators--like letting more people 

put solar power on their roofs -- but nooo, Xcel only wants so many to do that because it cuts into their shareholder profits.  They'd be better off getting more rooftop solar in their

packages rather than just giving money to the shareholders.  Years ago it was called Public Service Co of Colorado, and was a regulated utility that actually benefitted those it served.  No more. . .

What's being hypocritical about wanting to protect a superb canyon from being despoiled.

Because you're not following the party line of the lock-step knee-jerkers who think anything associated with solar power is holy and sacrosanct. Never mind they live no where near the proposed drowned canyon.

Imagine, finding a pristine canyon and all you see is its potential for use as a battery, to power TV s and neon signs. Get over yourselves! If you run low on power and can't properly light up your booty at night, well, LEAVE! Canyon saved.

Isaiah aka Zay Foulks wrote:

Fuck it. Story time.

For billions of years Earth just kinda floated around, spinning with its 23.5° tilted axis while basking in the sun's radiation, and the techtonic plates drifted around like scum on a giant ball of molten bullshit.

Then a few hydrocarbons and some amino acids started to dance. Eventually, life invented photosynthesis.

CO2 + H20 + sunlight = C6H12O6(glucose) + O2

Flash forward 2 billion years, and FINALLY we have this lovely little concoction of Nitrogen and Oxygen we call "air."

Life crawls out of the sea, spreads, and species come and go as techtonic plates play air hockey with each other while the water cycles carve through mountains and nourish this and that. Various species live or die by the royal decree of Grande Chemistry.

Then one day, some hairless ape looked around and said, "Holy shit... if we dig a trench here and divert this water there... we could grow plants... and if we stack these sticks like this, we can keep these tasty animals from wandering off... let's call it a fence."

"What are you saying?" Said the other monkey.

"We don't have to move anymore."

Surplus. Agriculture. Comfort. Increased reproductive success. Civilization. Increased life expectancy. Religion. GROW GOD'S KINGDOM. Industrial revolutions. Whale oil. Otter pelts. Bye bye buffalo. Cars. Roadways. Cities. Power plants.

In the 1800, the human population was about 1 billion. It took over a MILLION years of human existence to get there.

In 1900, we hit 2.

In 1960, we hit 3.

In the 70's, we hit 4.

In the 80's, we hit 5.

It's 2022, we're about to hit 8.

Every single thing I've said so far is true and makes absolutely zero claims regarding politics.

Do you know what a Carrying Capacity is?

8 billion humans (for now). Filling land fills, eating, flushing toilets, eating, burning dinosaurs, eating, building, eating, building, eating, screaming at cashiers because they are ENTITLED to free plastic bags while five major ocean gyres continue to collect unfathomable quantities of disintrigrated plastic where polybutalyne terepthalates and polychlorinated biphenols wipe out killer whales and find their way through the food chains into your kids, and condors struggle to reestablish themselves after already going extinct due to lead toxicity because alternative firepower is just left wing libtard propaganda.

But what about my climbing!!??

Got kids? You got way bigger problems.

Climate change? Bad news. There's way scarier shit comin' our way. Climate change, global warming, ocean acidification, biomaccumulation and magnification, overpopulation, fossel fuel depletion, water depletion, mass exodus, plastic polution, overfishing, deforestation, mass exctinction and ecological collapse, the demise of photosynthesis (remember, it took 2 billion years for cyanobacteria to create this atmosphere by turning co2 and h2o into glucose and o2).

A bunch of monkeys on a ship so big and so old they didn't even know what water was until they dug right through the hull. Don't bother with this life rafts; there's nothing out there.

Anyways, my ten minutes is up. Gonna go burn a few gallons of carbonaceous fluid so I can go climb some resin polymers while 86 people - somewhere - die of starvation in the 2 hours it takes me to spray to a bunch of white twenty somethings about how rad I am for free soloing The Grack in approach shoes.

Enjoy what you have while you have it. Good times come and good times go, trust me. In the meantime, take a good hard look at that toilet you're peeing into.

Finally, someone addresses the root of the issue here...overpopulation. 

Steve Williamswrote:

What's being hypocritical about wanting to protect a superb canyon from being despoiled.  There are certainly other places that Xcel can build power generators--like letting more people 

put solar power on their roofs -- but nooo, Xcel only wants so many to do that because it cuts into their shareholder profits.  They'd be better off getting more rooftop solar in their

packages rather than just giving money to the shareholders.  Years ago it was called Public Service Co of Colorado, and was a regulated utility that actually benefitted those it served.  No more. . .

True!

Andrew Reedwrote:

Finally, someone addresses the root of the issue here...overpopulation. 

True! Isaiah is right on! This is why the concentration of greenhouse gases is increasing so dramatically and the globe is warming so quickly.  

That said, I’m opposed to this project. It would ruin beautiful country, and the cost/benefit ratio of this “battery storage” capacity doesn’t justify its construction. The comments that are in favor of pumped storage are posted by people who live far away from the location of this proposed project. There are better ways to augment renewables. 

I'm not convinced overpopulation is the issue, but I will mention that the US population would be shrinking without immigration

I'm not convinced overpopulation is the issue, but I will mention that the US population would be shrinking without immigration

Curmudgeon Donwrote:

How do you know when somebody has put up many first ascents?
…. they’ll be sure to tell you about it each time they post on mountain project.

Good thing you're around to humbly restrain such rampant egoism, eh? </s>

Good on you, Pasquale, for appealing to cooler heads to prevail. I don't know of many people in the 970 who love the Weep more than you and Skyeler C. Keep up the good work, man.

F r i t zwrote:

Good thing you're around to humbly restrain such rampant egoism, eh?

Good on you, Pasquale, for appealing to cooler heads to prevail. I don't know of many people in the 970 who love the Weep more than you and Skyeler C. Keep up the good work, man.

Looks like I got your goat! Haha sorry I forgot we don’t make jokes about developers. Italian cowboy, please tell me more about all your first ascents….

Curmudgeon Donwrote:

Looks like I got your goat! 

You can have her! She's not much of a belayer, has a bit of an affinity for the taste of nylon  ... For that reason, I recommend that you use wired hexes instead of your corded ones on her collar for echolocation purposes.

F r i t zwrote:

You can have her! She's not much of a belayer, has a bit of an affinity for the taste of nylon  ... For that reason, I recommend that you use wired hexes instead of your corded ones on her collar for echolocation purposes.

That’s a beautiful goat. Hope she can take a joke without getting too saa’aad (said in goat’s voice). Wish the cowboy kept his comment up, I was really looking forward to hearing about those first ascents. Oh well, at least he’s happy with people coming out and enjoying the canyon. Last I heard, the canyon was only open to “locals with many first ascents” for top rope soloing purposes only….