Vamos Chicas

Many readers will be excited to learn of a new sport climb proposed for the Maiden, near Boulder, Colorado. More details are available at the Flatirons Climbing Council website.

http://flatironsclimbing.org/vamoslaschicas/

The installation of this climb will diminish and eliminate an established traditional climb The Kor-Dalke. Kor-Dalke is the longest and most challenging traditional route on the Maiden. It follows a meandering path, zigzagging across the steep south face. Established 13 years ago the route remains unrepeated. It appears to be both unpopular, and to take up some prime real estate in a beautiful area which has limited natural resources. 

The Flatirons Climbing Council is seeking public imput for a popular vote which will decide whether or not they recommend this proposal to the city. No need to argue with angry old trad climbers about ethical considerations, you can vote online at the link above.

Popular sport climbs don't just grow on trees you know. Vote early and vote often. The popularity of these sport climbs is testament to their quality.

Thank you for your attention.

"But we did it first. And that's the only way it should be done, there is definitely not a better way. This is the only way to interact with this feature. Now get off my lawn!"

Since they’re proposing crisscrossing an established “trad” route, I think a direct finish is in order.

Vamos Chicas is proposed by two female climbers. Named in keeping with the nearby, and popular sport climb, Hasta La Hueco.

I always thought that Hasta La Hueco was spun from a line in a Schwarzenegger movie, but that's just my guess. Schwarzenegger and bad Spanish would be a marvelous theme to run with. How about Las Terminatadoras!

I wonder if there could be a compromise where they either bolt out of reach of Kor-Dalke or make it a mixed route where it intersects. It's kind of odd they haven't figured out the actual line on top rope. I understand it's overhanging and that makes it more difficult to work certain sections, but shouldn't you figure out what the actual line is before proposing to erase an established line?

Edit: Mark Roth explains the proposed route in better detail on page six of this thread. The new line doesn't actually intersect according to him. There's some serious brain rot in between here and his comment, just a heads up.

Thank you Kevin and Austin for your contributions. I must apologize for the clumsy and sarcastic lead that I presented for this topic. In case you haven't already guessed it, I am the angry old trad climber.

I also believe that this is an important issue. Climbing has changed a great deal in my lifetime. I am concerned about the proliferation of fixed hardware, and the permanent changes that seems to bring, especially in our parks and other protected areas.

Followers of this thread should read the description and comments on the Kor-Dalke Route page, under the Maiden, Flatirons South.

Few climbers may bother to navigate the above link to the FCC site and try to vote regarding the proposed retrobolted route. I twice tried to post a comment with my vote, without success, until I tried a Reply to an existing comment. So that site doesn’t make voting easy.

“Popularity” is a squishy term. Sport climbers who climb 5.13 may vote for it. If all climbers were to vote,  most may be against it. If the general public were informed about what’s happening in the Flatirons and then vote, most would definitely be against it. 

Kevin Worrall wrote:

2 female climbers? Never would have guessed! Actually the girlie tennis shoe in one of the photos was a hint.

Are they familiar with the history of ethics in Eldo and surrounding crags? I know times have changed since I lived there in the early 70’s, but I’m hoping the powers that be take these ethics into consideration.

Looks like there’s another line, if rapbolting’s fair game, between “Vamos las Chicas” and Hasta El Hueco. Perhaps it should be called Vamanos Hombres. It would likely be harder and wouldn’t disrespect and cross the other Men’s line.

Hueco is a Masculine noun btw, Señoritas, not to be picky but you called it Hasta La Hueco in your proposal. At the risk of mansplaining, gender might not matter in today’s climbing world, but it still does in Spanish. 

This is a bit unhinged dude. How in the world are you getting triggered by women putting up a line called "let's go girls". This has nothing to do with men, bashing men, accusing you of mansplaining, or excluding men-- it's just women rooting themselves on because they are climbing a damn hard line. Hasta La Hueco is a route put up and named by Bret Ruckman and Steve Annecone, so if you have any problems with the Spanish then bring it up with them, no idea how you made any of this proposal about gender. 

To a man they would have scoffed at this proposal at best, I think that’s an important thing to consider. And I think the names of the climbers should be made public along with their resumes. Their description of the proposed route is vague enough to indicate they likely haven’t done all the moves, let alone linked them, but they know the rating and the bolt count? Such a high profile and controversial line in America’s most climber populated area deserves some serious scrutiny.

This is just straight up misogyny dude, I really hope you come to this realization. There have been many applications for routes that have not had all of the moves done or a grade figured out. In fact, there is a current application that is an overhanging route they think MIGHT be 5.14, why aren't you scoffing at this proposal? Why are other people ok with it and voting yes? http://flatironsclimbing.org/skunked/  Why aren't you applying the same level of scrutiny here?

I imagine that Vamos las chicas is a similar story, where parts of the route are difficult to toprope/link without lead bolts due to overhangs or traversing moves. 

The girl power attitude of the name alone suggests the route has political undercurrents. The climbing industry is actively pushing to encourage female climbers for the increased profit they bring, and the worldwide dearth of all female FA’s is a constant thorn in the side of aggressive feminist climbers.

aka Tell me you hate women without telling me you hate women 

I think if you are strong enough to climb The Kor-Dalke, you will be strong enough of will to not clip the bolts of a new line that crosses it in a few points. It seems like the proposed line doesn't follow weaknesses as much as The Kor-Dalke so not surprised that it would have some bolts.

It may bring more ascents to The Kor-Dalke if people climb the new line and like the look of the terrain they see nearby... and at that grade it would certainly be in their wheelhouse.

If you are that pissed about it... go and FA their proposed route on gear before they put bolts in and give it some snarky name... but then you would also be admitting that this is just an ego thing for you.

The linked article/public comment forum is pretty lame. The comments must be "approved" for moderation. I submitted a comment that was very reasonable. No foul language, no heated or controversial opinions, just some things I thought should be considered. The comment apparently did not perfectly mirror the views of the "moderator" so it was denied and never posted. One great way to have a consensus shown is to only post the views that agree with the consensus you are pushing. Lame.

I don't see a link to vote, only a spot to comment, does the "popular" vote come later?

ClimbingOnwrote:

The linked article/public comment forum is pretty lame. The comments must be "approved" for moderation. I submitted a comment that was very reasonable. No foul language, no heated or controversial opinions, just some things I thought should be considered. The comment apparently did not perfectly mirror the views of the "moderator" so it was denied and never posted. One great way to have a consensus shown is to only post the views that agree with the consensus you are pushing. Lame.

How about posting your intended comment here?

Looks like a mostly  independent  line  by looking at the topo. Yes it  crosses  the other  climb  twice  but  do I  really  own the whole  dammed  cliff just  because I  traversed all over it..INMOP the  direct  line should be allowed. 

I plan to go to cliffs and traverse around the base so no one can put up new routes. Even if no one repeats my route, I will complain that any new routes in the area will compromise the experience of future parties (or lack thereof). I will say it's all about vision and the beauty of climbing, and quote 60 year old quotes that were from before sport climbing was a thing and when everyone climbed 5.easy in boots to support my opinion. 

Yellow line looks like a one or two more direct  variations on the Kor Dalke.  V1 near the bottom and V2 near the top.  

Can either V1 or V2 go on gear with and R or and X rating?

The photos of Kor-Dalke show very well chalked holds. Hard to see how this is unpopular, from the photos at least.

And in photos the Maiden looks like a very large outcropping.  The original route is four pitches across the feature.  Hard to see how a direct variation low or high causes too much headache.

The new route doesn’t seem to be independent enough now to merit a new FA and name.  That may change and the variation can become the dominant route up the feature. 

To ClimbingOn and others above regarding posting comments on the FCC page, it's possible or likely that the moderator is out climbing or otherwise tied up for a bit. Your comments will likely be posted soon, things don't always happen instantaneously on the Internet...