Grid Bolting is a Myth

I have yet to meet a developer that actually deliberately grid bolts something. It is too costly, logistically more difficult, and makes for a worse climb. While there maybe some cases of it, it is not frequent.

However, functionally many crags are grid bolted. World Wall, Rumney, Smith, the Red, Red Rocks, Bow Valley; many routes you can just wander over to the next route (these are often variations/extensions). Adam Ondra regularly just links up two climbs and calls it something harder. Even gear crags are functionally grid bolted with so many pro options. Vantage and Index you can often just ditch the route part way through. Calling something grid bolted is not bad or good, its just how it is. Just do not play a game of denial. 

The only thing consistent in the grid bolting debate is that a persons home crag isn't grid bolted but some other persons is. 

Why doesn't the posting limit on this site ever seem to apply to you?

Oh okay. Thanks 

Fail Fallingwrote:

Why doesn't the posting limit on this site ever seem to apply to you?

I think it is cause I am nice to you all. I don't think I have any points. Have you considered getting me banned?

I miss everyone who has been banned tho.

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Why doesn't the posting limit on this site ever seem to apply to you?

This is by far the best reply any Trevor post is going to get.  We've reached the top its all down here from here. 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I think it is cause I am nice to you all. I don't think I have any points. Have you considered getting me banned?

I miss everyone who has been banned tho.

What about people who ban themselves like A V?!

Trevor, you’re in violation of shit posting. Love you 

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

What about people who ban themselves like A V?!

Naw I would go out with a bang; like uploading inappropriate climbing content or drawing a topo that is actually a phallic symbol.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Naw I would go out with a bang; like uploading inappropriate climbing content or drawing a topo that is actually a phallic symbol.

Didn't bearbreeder get banned for something dong related?

Until antigravity boots sweep the whole tired controversy away for good, bolting will remain a debate without end. There's just too much grey area surrounding the subject. There are crags, and then there are crags. Some crags are heavily used. Climbing, and the bolting thst goes with it, is recognized as a viable land use. Regulated and ruled over by commities. You show up, pay for your parking/day climbing pass. When your turn in line for a route comes up, doing your best to keep your rope out of the broken glass, you try to move past the crux graffiti at the start in good style. Super fun.

But there are far more crags that exist in a perpetual state of being one serious injury away from closure. The ' nobody cares if you climb there as long as nobody gets hurt' kind of crags. What then should the bolting policy on crags like that look like?

In hiking, one rule of thumb is that the group hikes at the pace of the slowest hiker. Old and crusty now, I'm seeing young guns and gunnettes coming out of the gyms climbing harder grades than i ever did, but have never put a piece of gear in in their lives. Should the architect of the first ascent consider this dangerous dynamic, when deciding whether or not to add a bolt.

'Sure, i can fiddle in a placement here, but what's the trad skill level of the least skilled climber to ever climb this route after me likely to be?

If we followed that guideline, trad gear would already be gathering dust in a pile with klettershoes and spiked alpenstocks. Amazingly safe, in it's day, but not as safe as a bolt.

After fortyfive years of trad climbing, I'm not advocating abolishing trad gear altogether. But I see that day coming.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Naw I would go out with a bang; like uploading inappropriate climbing content or drawing a topo that is actually a phallic symbol.

I can somehow respect this much more   

Wait.. did AV get banned?

Chris Trautzwrote:

After fortyfive years of trad climbing, I'm not advocating abolishing trad gear altogether. But I see that day coming.

I don't think I generally agree on the premise but do you think this would ever extend into the alpine or would it be the last bastion?

Fail Fallingwrote:

Why doesn't the posting limit on this site ever seem to apply to you?

Trevor has like 10 accounts and still HASN'T explained his irrational love for puppies.

tobias bundlewrote:

Wait.. did AV get banned?

Self inflicted “ban”

He ought to visit Boulder canyon sometime. . . 

Gumby Kingwrote:

Trevor has like 10 accounts and still HASN'T explained his irrational love for puppies.

I feel like his love for puppies is one of the few things that is actually logical in Trev’s postings on here. 

Steve Williamswrote:

He ought to visit Boulder canyon sometime. . . 

I was going to a few years ago. I think it is a perfect example, I recall that routes on many of the walls were bolted years apart by different people, so while no one was intending for grid bolting it ended up being the result.

Gumby King wrote:

Trevor has like 10 accounts and still HASN'T explained his irrational love for puppies.

I wish. It would be easier to post under a different name. 

Chris Trautzwrote:

 

I think the larger issue is crags that have totally mixed ethics. Like there is 1 or two R route per wall that are variations of other climbs, so it is easy to accidentally go up a more dangerous route. Crags that are generally considered more bold have yet to be shut down, likely because fewer people climb at them. 

I'll gridbolt the shiznit out of a crag if the rock has unlimited route potentials. I resist camouflaging too as I enjoy seeing all them hangers glitter in the sun on the approach. I'm about as LNT as the guy who blasted out Mt. Rushmore.

(Of course, I'd rather see that crag bolted than reduced to a monument to Statism. Perhaps someday we can bolt the sh1t out of those actual faces)

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

 were squeezed in over a period of time 

Yes people pretend that classic crags are not grid bolted because they were developed overtime. Give me a crag you think is grid bolted and I'll give you a crag where the bolts are just as close, yet no one complains. Most complaints about grid bolting are the routes sucking and not actually because there are too many bolts on the wall. People often hate the routes and not necessarily the abundance of bolts on a wall. If three routes have bolts within six feet of another route but each route is 3 stars, that is okay (like rainy day women or world wall itself). If the routes suck it is because of grid bolting. The issue isn't grid bolting its the routes sucking. 

Okay, well having badly ignored the above, I know of crags in California where the developer(s) frequently drop in and effectively grid bolt the crag without having climbed anything and then has FA parties with their friends where they climb the wall, connecting the bolts and figuring out the climbs and the grades that way.  (and not just at urban crap crags like Riverside Quarry, even high up in the sierra in Shuteye)  Literally the definition of the type of bolting Trevor claims is a myth. 

Links?

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Do you purposefully get confused about what your own arguments are or have you made so many disingenuous arguments for the sake of keeping the flame going that you legitimately can't keep up with which argument is your current bs and which is your previous bs?

Route sucks bolts are close= I hate grid bolting

Route sucks bolts are far apart= I hate ground up climbs

Route sucks rock quality mediocre=I hate Choss

Routes awesome bolts are close =I love it

Routes awesome bolts are far apart= I love it

Routes awesome rock sucks= I love it

If the route is good people won’t complain if it sucks they look for the easiest excuse.