Should I Break Up with my Climbing Partner?

I would love any advice here. I've been climbing maybe 3+ years, progressed to sport, have had good live instruction by certified guides, read many books, and countless online forums and videos. I'm a student of climbing and take it very seriously. I'm also doing a trad course next week and really just want to gain skill to be versatile enough to climb anything, anywhere.

My climbing partner has been climbing a few years too. We met at the gym and have been doing sport routes together. We've climbed outside at a local crag too just on TR. I would say he's got basic skills and has done some learning from guides, but he's not as focused on the technical side as I am. He loves climbing, but probably isn't reading papers on rope tests and knot efficiency, which is fine.

So what? A couple months ago, the local indoor gym took my partners lead tag for not belaying good enough. He had too much slack and was too far away from the wall, I was on an overhung route. Plus, they said he took his hand off the rope. The staff was convinced I would have decked at that moment in a fall. I was grateful that the staff was watching and figure that we all make mistakes and could learn from this.

We take the lead test again, he fails (too much slack maybe). 2nd retake / fail (too hard of a catch). At this point, I'm thinking, that the testers are being overly conservative. 3rd retake / fail (I forget the reason). 

4th retake / fail. Now this happened last night, and it's got me thinking. My partner seemingly did everything right, and he was lifted off the ground after my announced fall. When he went to lower me, he somehow cranked on the GriGri, maybe dropped the brake strand, and I descended super-fast, though I didn't deck. 

One more thing, we were rappeling down an outdoor route a few months back, and he did a similar thing in lowering himself over the edge to rappel down. He let out on the GriGri and basically whipped 10ft down from the top of cliff before the brake engaged. He sort of rag-dolled, and scared the shit out of both of us. Luckily, we had solid anchors, great gear, and a 3rd hand (prusik). 

Would you still climb with this partner? Not at all? Just not on lead? I don't want to be too picky, but this seems like a good area in life in which to be particularly particular. I think my partner just has clumsy hands perhaps, which is obviously not great for belaying. Thanks for any advice.

I would not climb with this person.  Ever.  

I'll start by saying reliable, regular partners are hard to find. I try to hang onto them.

Does your partner acknowledge his shortcomings? Do you think his belaying is poor? Is he open to learning?

Have you watched his handwork, amount of slack and general belaying? You can look down at your belayer, periodically, to see what he's doing. Have you watched him belay someone else?

You are the most familiar with him, so you need to make the call. Not us, who have never seen him in action.

First thing, Climbing gym employees don't know much and I wouldn't take much stock in their opinions.

However, per your description this dude sounds funky, I would need a video to say so for sure, but some people just don't have the finesse to belay perfectly.

Good luck with your breakup and if you ever need someone to talk to here's my number: 951-527-7959

PS Thanks for the fodder this place needs more brave young men to stand up and tell their story.

I'm really torn on this. I agree that gym employees don't necessarily know what belaying excellence looks like. Also, this partner and I climb at about the same level, which makes it more interesting as we can push each other. Our schedules work out well too. But... I feel like with 4 failed lead tests, and two examples of dropping a climber too fast, losing control, on the GriGri lever (once me and once himself rappeling), I'm also struggling with trust. So I'm on the fence, but leaning towards no sport climbing with this fellow.

I would say failed lead tests are not necessarily a big deal. For example, the Touchstone chain in the Bay Area is (or at least was?) very notorious for being super strict with the lead belay test. I had partners who've caught dozens of my falls with no issue unable to pass for vague reasons like "not looking confident enough." But in this case the specific pseudo-drops are the more worrying bit...

Say, did you discuss your concerns with your climbing partner?
It is easy to blame gym employees for negative feedback - just a gym employee, amarite?

Feedback is more effective coming from the climbing partner.

No, I haven't spoken directly to my partner yet about my growing concern. Up until now, I've basically said - let's learn together, these lead tests are more free instruction, and we'll figure this out. But now, with a seemingly growing pattern, it's more about me assessing my own level of confidence. But yes, either way, I'll have a follow up conversation with my partner on all this.

I vote for a break-up.  I know it is super awkward after 3 years of regular climbing but your physical safety is more important than some social awkwardness. 

Even beyond the basic safety(which this person seems to be lacking) you always want your climbing partner(s) to be people you trust 100%!

Ben Horowitz wrote:

..."not looking confident enough."...

that's a new one!  classic. 

Andrew C wrote:

2nd retake / fail (too hard of a catch). 

 it's a gym...who fails someone for "too hard of a catch" inside????

Some partners are only good for certain types of climbing. With this dude it sounds like bouldering is your ticket.

Andrew C wrote:

One more thing, we were rappeling down an outdoor route a few months back, and he did a similar thing in lowering himself over the edge to rappel down. He let out on the GriGri and basically whipped 10ft down from the top of cliff before the brake engaged. .... Luckily, we had solid anchors, great gear, and a 3rd hand (prusik). 

How the heck do you take a 10ft whipper while rapelling if you have a "third hand"? 

Andrew Cox wrote: ...let's learn together ...

Climbing is one of those weird activities where your life is truly at stake if your approach is "learning as we go". Would you (or your buddy) parachute out of an airplane without knowing how? "It's OK. We'll figure it out before we hit ground".

curt86iroc wrote:

 it's a gym...who fails someone for "too hard of a catch" inside????

Speaking from personal experience, someone who's watched ankles break from hard catches twice, inside.

I wouldn't fail someone on a lead test for it if they did everything else right though.  I'd use it as an educational opportunity and spend a few minutes practicing soft catches with that person.  These are always people who learned to climb outside from friends.  These are never people who have taken classes, whether outside or inside.

Sincerely,
Your Local Climbing Gym Employee Who Definitely Knows Nothing About Climbing And Should Always Be Disregarded

At the very least I would start climbing with new partners.  You will get a different perspective on climbing and might learn that some of what you and your current partner do are not the best.  It will be a learning experience.

That said good and reliable partners are very hard to come by, which is the only thing arguing for keeping your current partner.

Tradiban wrote:

PS Thanks for the fodder this place needs more brave young men to stand up and tell their story.

This got me so bad 

Gym tests are notorious for being sticklers and needing to do everything exactly the way they want it. It’s not uncommon for experienced climbers to fail a test. But someone not being able to figure it out and do what is needed after multiple attempts is a huge red flag. 

I would stick to TR with this person, much lower risk. As long as they don’t hold the gri gri open. The lack of competence to pass a lead test tells me they probably won’t ever be a good lead belayer. I would remain friends and climb TR with them (unless as mentioned they may hold the gri gri open.) 

I’d look for a new partner for lead.If it comes up I’d say to your partner: I want to climb with someone who’s experience and interest matches or exceeds my own, and I’m concerned that you haven’t been able to pass the lead belay test. Lead climbing is risky and I need complete confidence in belayer. 

If you have to ask… idk about you man, but I was right around the 3 year mark when I got particular about partners and I don’t regret it at all.  I’ll come out and say it.  Your partner sucks, and is going to hurt someone very badly one day.  If it’s you, no one will be sympathetic because of this thread.  I’d talk to your partner just to be up front about it, but let’s be honest here- a “few years” in and he’s fucking up like that?  Nah. I see shit like that all the time- people with yards of slack out, standing 20’ away from the wall, completely oblivious to the error, the climber completely oblivious to the belayer’s complete lack of skill and awareness.  It’s pretty rampant where I’m at.  I see people unwittingly enter into completely avoidable near death/serious injury scenarios literally every time I’m in the gym.  No exaggeration.  So, at least you notice it, and you should behave accordingly. Would you ride with someone that weaves through traffic 20 mph above the speed limit every time you’re with them while you white knuckle the dashboard?  Probably not.  Not really much difference here.  Shit belayers are selfish and a dime a dozen.  Drop the dead weight and find a partner that’s as conscientious and as serious about progressing in climbing as you are.  YMMV.

Seriously Moderate Climber wrote:

Speaking from personal experience, someone who's watched ankles break from hard catches twice, inside.

I wouldn't fail someone on a lead test for it if they did everything else right though.  I'd use it as an educational opportunity and spend a few minutes practicing soft catches with that person.  These are always people who learned to climb outside from friends.  These are never people who have taken classes, whether outside or inside.

Sincerely,
Your Local Climbing Gym Employee Who Definitely Knows Nothing About Climbing And Should Always Be Disregarded

cool. glad we agree it's not a point of failure for a lead test.

also, i never insinuated climbing gym employees are uninformed. but out of curiosity, I'm assuming you work at a denver area gym. which one?

Andrew C wrote:

Also, this partner and I climb at about the same level, which makes it more interesting as we can push each other. Our schedules work out well too. 

Does not offset the negatives. 

Andrew C wrote:

But... I feel like with 4 failed lead tests, and two examples of dropping a climber too fast, losing control, on the GriGri lever (once me and once himself rappeling), I'm also struggling with trust. 

Listen to this feeling. A belaytionship without trust isn't much of a belaytionship. Especially a lack of trust based upon multiple points of experience.

Andrew C wrote:

I'm really torn on this. So I'm on the fence

What emotional trauma has occurred in your life that leads to the response that you're actually torn and confused as to what the safe and prudent choice here is?

curt86iroc wrote:

cool. glad we agree it's not a point of failure for a lead test.

also, i never insinuated climbing gym employees are uninformed. but out of curiosity, I'm assuming you work at a denver area gym. which one?

My snarky signature was aimed at some of the previous posters who told the OP not to listen to gym employees because they don't know anything.  And I'll admit they have a point :) There's a huge discrepancy of skills, knowledge, and professionalism in this industry.  That's why I said nothing to the OP.  Also, the word "local" in my signature wasn't meant to imply I live near you, just speaking in general terms.