Manage the pump while placing a screw

Just started leading 4’s this week. Feel really solid on the movement, swings, feet, and stances. However, when I am placing screws, I get extremely pumped.

Where should I keep my non-screw hand/tool to help this? My current practice is to have the tool placed about shoulder height, and grip my tool with my finger grip (nomics). Very comfortable and stable for the placement but just pumps me out too much.

Advice?

Mitch Steinerwrote:

Just started leading 4’s this week. Feel really solid on the movement, swings, feet, and stances. However, when I am placing screws, I get extremely pumped.

Where should I keep my non-screw hand/tool to help this? My current practice is to have the tool placed about shoulder height, and grip my tool with my finger grip (nomics). Very comfortable and stable for the placement but just pumps me out too much.

Advice?

I place my tool high, so my arm is straight. That way my bones are doing the work and not my muscles. 

DeLa Crucewrote:

I place my tool high, so my arm is straight. That way my bones are doing the work and not my muscles. 

Same. Also feel like you’re likely to pull “out” more on the shoulder-high tool when placing screws, as opposed to a high tool. The last thing I want to be worried about when placing a screw is coming off the ice. High tool does mean you lose feeling in that high hand quicker, but that’s just incentive to place a screw quickly and then get moving again, right?

I agree with Greg and DeLa. If you have a decent “a frame” or triangle position, you can start the screw and then match hands and finish drilling and clipping with the other hand. Back and forth. Learn to trust your feet and breath:)

I know we push ourselves in this sport, but leading pumped is about one of the shittiest feelings one can have. A guide once gave me  a great tip after watching me climb, which I  still need to remind myself: climb slowly on the easy parts. If placing a screw makes me pumped, I need to back off, so play around with comfortable hand positions and really look for those feet positions where you feel like you could stand there awhile. Unless you are on an overhang, the arm muscles should really not be doing too much when you’re not swinging.

I agree with what has already been said about getting a solid high tool to hang off straight armed. But at least as important is to get good solid feet when placing screws. Spend some time to kick a base for the feet, or at least one of them, If you can get off the front point (flat-footing) on one foot it makes things a lot less stressing.

Thanks for the tips. I’ve tried the high tool before (a few seasons ago) and when I had to push hard on the screw to get it to bite, I felt off balance with the tool up high. I love the lower tool for the power I can get out of my screw hand.

I’ll have to go back to high tool to hang off the bones instead of the muscle.

And although climbing through a pump is not the best idea, I sure have learned how to reduce it enough to keep going. I still keep the #1 rule in mind, don’t worry!

A few other things to consider: make sure your screws are SHARP. And if the ice is hard (cold), peck a starter hole about an inch deep.

Sharp screws, Pick a stance, find that one spot where you actually have a foot hold. eventually you need to  be able to place a screw any place, any time but for the moment concentrate on aiming for a spot where you have a decent foot hold.   Place both tools up high so you can alternate hands and shake out or go for A frame but I prefer two options to rest. straight arm. if your doing curls you are doing it wrong.  If you pumped out placeing the screw clip into it directly with a quick draw and get you shit back together. this ain't sport climbing. Even a short fall might break your ankle. 

Mitch Steinerwrote:

Thanks for the tips. I’ve tried the high tool before (a few seasons ago) and when I had to push hard on the screw to get it to bite, I felt off balance with the tool up high. I love the lower tool for the power I can get out of my screw hand.

I’ll have to go back to high tool to hang off the bones instead of the muscle.

And although climbing through a pump is not the best idea, I sure have learned how to reduce it enough to keep going. I still keep the #1 rule in mind, don’t worry!

Hi Mitch,

If you feel off balance, it's likely because your feet are not in the best position in relation to the high tool. You should be able to "pendulum" off the high tool and not have your body swing one way or the other. Feet should ideally be evenly spaced below the centerline of the upper tool. Also, try placing the screw closer to the middle of your body just above your belly button. This will give you more pushing power to start it, and you can hold the screw in place with your body as you move your hand to get the next twisting position.

Also, as stated above, if you're really getting pumped, clip into your upper tool, place the screw and recover. Better than a spiral leg fracture.

Cheers and have fun.

Mitch Steinerwrote:

Thanks for the tips. I’ve tried the high tool before (a few seasons ago) and when I had to push hard on the screw to get it to bite, I felt off balance with the tool up high. I love the lower tool for the power I can get out of my screw hand….

Hmmm. Everyone has already stated the best advice, I’m just having a difficult time imagining how the lower arm makes you feel more solid.  

If your arm was low and centered, it would push you out and back and thus pump you quickly as your arm muscles take all the weight as well as providing the screw pressure.   If it was low and off to a side, it wouldn’t give you good leverage and would tend to barn door you as you placed the screw.  

An arm high and centered and a super sharp screw placement more or less inline with the axe above,  at waist level has the best of all worlds.  Your feet transferred thru body/core rotation should provide all the power for screw placement.  Little arm force is needed.  

Now that most climbs have been bashed up and picked out at this point in the season, for training (on TR), drop one or both axes and climb up and place screws for practice not using arms.  You’ll get better at pacing, finding rests, footwork, etc. 

I place right by my right hip when starting screws in situations where I have no stance and am hanging from my straight arm. 

You are getting good info here. Another vote for sharp screws and starter hole!  Use a pick placement hole or make your own! Petzl sharpening tool works great!

Practice placing screws! The more you do it the better / faster you will get.  Personally i prefer to place screws nipple high rather than hip high. Do what works best for you. 

On a 4 you should be able to get your feet solid. Relax. Shake out. Then work on the screw.

I hear ya I hear ya! I don’t ever have trouble getting a screw in as I place at my hip, rotate 180 a few times for starter hole, etc. Also, my feet are always solid, my heels are down, hips in, etc. 

I can’t imagine someone successfully leading WI4 without knowing the basics. Maybe! I sure wouldn’t be comfortable if I didn’t have those things down. Like I said, I’ve lead multiple 4’s by now but just knew the amount of pump I had is too much  

Just sounds like the consensus is high tool and hang on the bones. Maybe my issue in the past was my high tool wasn’t “A Framed” enough as when I placed the screw I wanted the barn door.

I’m not sure how I would switch screwing hands with that position though. You’d almost need the screw right at your belly button in order to switch between left and right hands.

Here is the best, most recent photo of me placing a screw. I have since gotten new tools (nomics) but my technique is basically the same.

You can’t see my tool but most likely my pick is about eye level directly in the center of my stance. I still pull directly down on the tool but my biceps/forearms keep me solid and close to the ice while I place my screw at hip level.

This most likely didn’t pump me out on <3+ as I could lean into the ice and my muscles weren’t working hard to hold me tight to the wall. But now on 4’s that same technique has to work harder to keep a downward pull on the tool but also keep me in close. 

If your feet are set wide, you will not barn door.  As others have already mentioned, place both your tools high, so you can hang off a straight arm and keep your hips close to the ice.  

You may also simply need to get stronger.  If you don’t currently do strength training for ice climbing, you should probably start.  I have found that heavy finger rolls, weighted tool hangs, and figure 4 lock-offs are effective exercises for increasing grip strength and reducing pump.  

It is possible to train yourself to be strong enough that you will be able to rest and recover at virtually any stance, on vertical ice.  If you want some inspiration, watch competitive ice climbers resting and recovering on overhanging terrain!

https://ourayicepark.com/championship 

I would also recommend sticking to mock leading WI4 or harder routes, until you can effectively rest and recover at all your screw placements.  Focus on learning to rest and recover on vertical terrain, while mock leading, before going back to doing real leads.

Mitch Steinerwrote:

I’m not sure how I would switch screwing hands with that position though. You’d almost need the screw right at your belly button in order to switch between left and right hands.

You don't switch hands for the screwing, you switch at the tool to de-pump the tool gripping hand 

I almost never make a starting hole. Only do that in the very rare occasion that the screw is not starting. Just place the darn thing. fire it in. You do need to straight arm though. and if your pumping  switch hands on the tool and shake out. havent seen this posted yet but 13cm is the new standard screw INMOP. 10cm in good ice is also considered truck. my standard rack is all 10s and 13s with  one or two 16s and one or two greens for threads and anchors.  shorter screws will help. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I almost never make a starting hole. Only do that in the very rare occasion that the screw is not starting. Just place the darn thing. fire it in. You do need to straight arm though. and if your pumping  switch hands on the tool and shake out. havent seen this posted yet but 13cm is the new standard screw INMOP. 10cm in good ice is also considered truck. my standard rack is all 10s and 13s with  one or two 16s and one or two greens for threads and anchors.  shorter screws will help. 

I climbed with Chouinard screws for ten years so starter holes are kinda ingrained. 

Bottom line you should be able to get a modern screw in and clipped in 30 seconds or less so if that is not happening, practice. And sharpen your screws. 

timothy fisherwrote:

I climbed with Chouinard screws for ten years so starter holes are kinda ingrained. 

Bottom line you should be able to get a modern screw in and clipped in 30 seconds or less so if that is not happening, practice. And sharpen your screws. 

Exactly.  But not re-sharpened screws, but new factory sharp screws.  Its different.  If you're getting out a lot, sell those old screws every few years and pick up a new rack.  Don't beat the threads or tip against the wall when cleaning them.  Careful where you set them down and how you store them.  From taking the screw off your harness to clipping the rope, 25 seconds or less.  And with the screws so sharp, you can place them in all kinds of weird positions cause they go in.  Hard to get pumped in 25 seconds

I go through this as well during the season; seems like those first few climbs are when it happens. I am just a WI4/4+ climber. I find the pump comes from over-gripping (maybe feeling a bit anxious on lead, etc.) and not finding really good foot placements. When the feet are dialed and stable, it feels much easier placing screws, along with the straight arm as others have recommended. That is key. I have also taken the tip from Aaron Mulkey (saw some IG vid a while back) about a sideways stance with one boot, and creating a small stance ledge by using the crampon to chip away enough so that it takes the weight off more, and allows you to primarily weight that foot on a smallish "ledge". It engages the side of the crampon vs just the front points. 

And consider training for it. I do a lot of weighted hangs off of tools training, and it helps a ton. This is my go-to program: https://uphillathlete.com/ice-climbing-training-grip/ along with the UA Ice/Mixed Program before the season kicks off. Never hurts to try and train to be way stronger than you need to for something like placing screws, etc. 

(Also, is that pic of you on Hangover? Looks similar.)