Feeling like I had a near death experience

maybe a little dramic title, maybe not.
So I goofed, went trad climbing and had 2 cams rip and decked. Maybe 20-25ft fall. On reflecting, I feel like this could have easily been fatal or severely life altering (paralysis Brain injury etc). And yea there were things I could have done better to prevent it(more pieces Yada yada)but I didn’t so here I am. A surgery and many months later I’ll be clear to go back to normal activities.

  I’ve done all sorts of relatively risky sports before, but never had an injury like this or even close. I love climbing but it’s got me thinking about giving it up for the sake of my Health, career, and those around me.
Alright sorry for the dramatic long post but it’s like most people who don’t climb just say “yeah just quit” but naturally I don’t want to. I know on one can make a decision on if or how I should climb again. Just wondering if anyone has similar experiences they want share

Thanks Everyone

Thanks for sharing. 

In 2014 I had a big fall a few pitches up a route where I ripped a small cam, and went tumbling past my wife/belayer for what we estimated to be a total of around 50ft, ending up upside down on a small ledge when the rope went tight. I was lucky enough to only have a busted helmet, and sore ankle and wrist. My wife's hand got chewed up by her ATC a bit, and emotionally it was a pretty difficult experience for her. Fortunately we were able to bail and hike out without issue. I don't remember how long it was until I was climbing again, but it wasn't too long; probably as soon as I got a new helmet. That fall could've been far worse, and I for sure learned my lessons about running out above small cams and not being too far off the belay etc., but ultimately the way I see it is that it just wasn't my day, and I don't think the thought of quitting climbing ever crossed my mind. 

There are so many ways you could die every day, yet all those days you don't until the day you do. Climbing mistakes are just one of the endless dangers you encounter. The way I see it, ultimately it comes down to finding where your personal threshold is for unnecessary risks, and if through an experience like this your decide that climbing is beyond that, then stop doing it and don't judge yourself for it! But if it's within the threshold for you, then you're taking ownership of that choice to continue. Hope that all makes sense and is helpful.

Generally speaking, the first 3-4 pieces have to be bomber and on sport routes, you cannot blow the 3rd clip or you risk decking.

There are no hard or fast rules but blowing it close to the ground is worse than higher on a route assuming no ledges.

Best to keep this in mind when starting up a route.

I don’t think the reality of the danger & risks really registers until we get hurt. I took a 40ft fall a couple of years ago and pretty much the first thing that came to my mind when I righted myself on the rope was “this is madness, what the hell am I doing this for!”. Needless to say I was back climbing with a broken hand a couple weeks later. I can’t keep away and would probably lose my sanity without it. If climbing takes me, I hope it’s quick. 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117694099/leader-fall-at-echo-crag-in-nh-8242019

". . .the difference between me and them was just luck."

This will be the only honest thing in this thread.

I agree, luck is luck.

And, "Chance favors the prepared mind." attributed to Loius Pasteur

There’s two aspects here.  The mental and the real.  The “real” includes getting better and safer (better, fitter climber that places a more effective protection system).   Risk drops dramatically for a true artist-technician (got to be both).

The mental includes attitude/perspective as well as selecting the mission or objective.  Take all ego out of the equation, select for fun and enjoyment, and well within the envelope of your present artist-technician rating and you can climb for as long as you suck air on earth.  

My perspective after several bone crunching injuries was “hey! I’m fucking invincible!” …” I better tone it down and up my game a bit to stay that way”…

Your brain thinks very differently while recovering from serious injuries. 

Ripping out gear isn’t bad luck, it’s inexperience and a lack of skill.  It’s second place behind falling itself for trad climbing injuries.  OP doesn’t seem too introspective about that part - stands out.

James Wwrote:

Ripping out gear isn’t bad luck, it’s inexperience and a lack of skill.  It’s second place behind falling itself for trad climbing injuries.  OP doesn’t seem too introspective about that part - stands out.

Believe it or not there are routes out there with shit gear for the first 20 ft, and accidental slips happen even in moderate terrain. I think the focus of the post is on the absurd randomness that we sometimes stake our lives on and how to cope with that.

So yes being introspective is important, gear proficiency and climbing ability mitigate risk, but sometimes you get hurt regardless.

I've a long "career" in climbing; decades. I've had several close brushes with death, some with injury, some without. I've suffered even more severe injury in a car accident, coming home from climbing, as well as "other sports" injuries. I never quit climbing, and I never returned to climbing. Recovering from injury, there was never any shred of doubt on my part as to what I should do. It was a very simple thing really - move forward. 

I didn't come back to climbing, I moved forward to climbing. I was not the same person, the same climber, as the climber I was prior to those injuries and experiences. It wasn't that I was some new version of myself; never. Rather, as time rolls forward I became more complete. And for me, being complete includes climbing. The actual climbing, the climbs, etc. can and have changed and morphed over time. But still I find myself drawn to the stone steep grade. I still have ambitions and I still love the thrill of it all. 

But I carry the weight of those accidents, near misses, and scars. Sometimes they might seem like they're holding me back but inside I know that is not true. Nothing can hold me back its not possible in our physical world. We can't go back and we can's suspend time. We can only go forward. Those injuries, those brushes where I felt the breath of the grim reaper on the back of my neck? They propel me forward. They are a part of the person who gets up each morning and puts his shoes on and goes out into the great wide world.

James Wwrote:

Ripping out gear isn’t bad luck, it’s inexperience and a lack of skill.  It’s second place behind falling itself for trad climbing injuries.  OP doesn’t seem too introspective about that part - stands out.

OP here, just wanted say yeah it wasn’t just a random occurrence. There were many things I could have done to better mitigate the risks, more gear, better gear placements, more skill/experience just to name a few. We’re all human and bound to make mistakes, that’s risk we take. No one (probably) goes out and says time to make a bunch of risky errors on purpose. But yeah I recognize I messed up and can learn from it. However, there’s an inherent risk to climbing that when mistakes are made the consequences are often pretty severe. That’s more the point of the post is how people navigate the mental aspect risk and mitigation following accidents. (Not so much what happened and why)
Thanks, 

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I've a long "career" in climbing; decades. I've had several close brushes with death, some with injury, some without. I've suffered even more severe injury in a car accident, coming home from climbing, as well as "other sports" injuries. I never quit climbing, and I never returned to climbing. Recovering from injury, there was never any shred of doubt on my part as to what I should do. It was a very simple thing really - move forward. 

I didn't come back to climbing, I moved forward to climbing. I was not the same person, the same climber, as the climber I was prior to those injuries and experiences. It wasn't that I was some new version of myself; never. Rather, as time rolls forward I became more complete. And for me, being complete includes climbing. The actual climbing, the climbs, etc. can and have changed and morphed over time. But still I find myself drawn to the stone steep grade. I still have ambitions and I still love the thrill of it all. 

But I carry the weight of those accidents, near misses, and scars. Sometimes they might seem like they're holding me back but inside I know that is not true. Nothing can hold me back its not possible in our physical world. We can't go back and we can's suspend time. We can only go forward. Those injuries, those brushes where I felt the breath of the grim reaper on the back of my neck? They propel me forward. They are a part of the person who gets up each morning and puts his shoes on and goes out into the great wide world.

I can relate to this - I have had 3 major accidents that cumulatively took 2 years to sort of get over, with the first being the worst. You are not the same after as you have to adapt to increased limitations both physical and mental but you do adapt. The key is identifying what you enjoy and never being pressured to bite off more than you can chew.

As to the liklihood of injury or death- even if you do everything right something can go wrong and a bad landing will get you. Of 2 of my injuries the lessons were only obvious after and even then not something most people would ever consider or prepare for. There are likely a million of these - often just the slightest of bad luck combining with circumstances is sufficient . So be mindful when you climb and be as prepared as you can be and know when to back off.

I've had two fairly serious accidents and feel very fortunate the consequences were not worse. At the same time, I feel that the safety measures we train to use saved my life as they are meant to, confirming that the safety systems do work. Both accidents involved trad gear ripping, resulting in long falls and injury, but some of the trad gear did hold preventing worse injury or even death. In both cases, the gear popped because placement options were poor, not because of lack of skill. I recognized the risk and chose to climb on anyway. As one poster says, we move forward and become different people/climbers. I now make different choices when it comes to risk/reward balance in climbing, while also recognizing that I can never be 100% safe.

Interestingly, the hardest part for me has been the fear of being judged by my accidents, both by climbers and non-climbers alike. Although I've experienced mostly support and little direct criticism, it is something that is always in the back of my mind. I'm still working on getting past this part. This thread has been helpful for me to move forward.

I was a responder to a serious accident. At the time I was already questioning whether or not there was really a place for climbing in my life anymore. I have kids, wife and career. While I haven’t quit climbing, that incident snuffed out the flame of stoke and I haven’t really found myself seeking objectives or even interested in weekend cragging anymore. And I’m ok with that. As my kids have gotten older, now teens, I want to spend more time with them doing things we can enjoy as a family, and sacrificing that for climbing just isn’t as important anymore. And I’m totally ok with it. 

Jkug Kugwrote:

 Of 2 of my injuries the lessons were only obvious after and even then not something most people would ever consider or prepare for. 

Care to share what these lessons were?

Sport climbing is both.

Until you really truly deep down believe in your own mortality, and that you can die absolutely anytime? You will always fall back on that happens to other people, not me. 

That's the huge fear parents have to face, letting their kids go, yet knowing there will be an aspect of pure dumb luck for them to survive their own stupidity, as a teen and young adult, at the very least, and trusting them to make their own judgements. 

Until a climber has learned that mortality lesson?

They're a danger to themselves and others, subtly or overtly. This contributes to risk assessment,  who we are willing to partner with, all of it.

That said?

I learned that I was mortal when I was only 19, one of the greatest gifts of my life. Can I die? You bet. Would I rather live?

BIG FUCKING AFFIRMATIVE!!!!

That carried me through a lot tougher shit than climbing, through the decades, still does.

Climbing specific, it was reinforced very soon after I started climbing, only about 6ish years ago. I had traded harnesses with my climbing partner, to try out his harness. He was using mine.

He was SAR then, still is.

Thats when The Call came in, a climbing accident on Elephant's Perch. Fastest scramble ever, military helicopter ride, etc. These missions are rare, here, but that's what all that training is for. The one that matters.

End of the story? 

A body bag, sadly.

And that harness, my harness?

Was respectfully retired, after he was back home.

With her smush on it. My harness.

For the OP?

It's a totally individual thing 

Is this the day I eat it?

Maybe.

But it is also the day I choose to get up, put pants on, show up. It will never be the day I blow my brains out, or even willingly allow myself to get talked into unacceptable risk, after that chance encounter, a stranger with a knife, all those years ago.

Because ever since I was 19, with a knife at my throat?

I know I wanna be as alive as possible.

Until I'm not.

Risky business, this life thing!

My answer? Go for it. 

YMMV, and for sure, YGD. What that looks like, is entirely a personal decision.

Best, Helen

Abandon,

Thanks for your example. A lot of trad climbing involves making trade offs (sew it up vs. run it out, less pro less drag vs. more pro more drag etc). And when making these trade offs, I believe most climbers are aware of what they are doing. They may not be properly calculating the actual risks involved in their choices, but at the most basic level, they understand the potential for consequences. So I don't totally buy that things will only be obvious in hindsight. 

I do agree with you that luck plays a role and would even add that probably people in general underestimate the amount of luck that factors into one's climbing career. Maybe that's part of what you are saying?

Trad climbing should always be approached with a "do not fall" mentality unless you are 100% sure the situation is going to be okay. Avoiding weighting or relying on gear is a great policy for minimizing the chances of catastrophic failure of critical points. What I am always surprised to see in the weekend/insta/YT/ whatever whipper videos is the apparent faith that the falling climber has in the system. That's a really bad default attitude that will likely injure or kill you. Climbing down, finding alternate or additional pro, picking a different route or retreating altogether are worthy alternatives to a trip to the hospital or morgue. Going for it should be the byproduct of informed decision-making born of years of experience and even then...