Best Device for Belaying with Twins/Halfs

Just bought some halfs for ice and alpine climbing. What is the best device to use? Micro Jul vs Mega Jul vs Alpine ATC?

Any appropriate Jul for lead belay on skinnies, Kong GiGi for top belay. 

I like the Giga Jul for single ropes (never could get with feeding slack well with the Micro or Mega Juls) but prefer the BD Alpine ATC for twins/doubles.

With the Giga, I found one of the two ropes would always be a PIA to feed.

dmm pivot

BD Alpine guide ATC is also great for use with small ropes single strand. Like Opera 8.5.

I’ve used the BD Alpine Guide ATC with Elderid Apus half/twin which is 7.9 mm. Works well. And if you want more friction you can always add another biner. 

I would go with the Alpine ATC 

Edit: Of the 3 listed the Alpine ATC is the best.  I think the Alpine up from climbing technologies is the best.  

I use the DMM Pivot and have used it with as skinny ropes (twin) as 7,3 mm. The Mega Jul has assisted brakeing, but its not that fun to rapell on and it sucks to belay from above with. 

Jake Swrote:

Just bought some halfs for ice and alpine climbing. What is the best device to use? Micro Jul vs Mega Jul vs Alpine ATC?

What is the diameter of your half ropes

What is the diameter of your half ropes

7.9

Jake Swrote:

7.9

Micro jul lead belays very well for that diameter. Locks up nicely to catch a fall, which makes me feel good when my belayer has thick gloves, the rope may be icy, or the belayer may be hit by falling ice. Just turn it around to low friction mode to rap. Get a GiGi to top belay, also, rapping with a GiGi is super smooth but you really need a third hand. It handles steep terrain just fine and there is nothing better when it goes to low angle. IMO

Edit: the megajul for a 7.9 won’t lock up as reliable on a big leader fall but depending on your weight and terrain may rappel nicely in locking mode. Alpine Up is great device if you don’t mind the size of it and complexity of all it’s different modes. It’s not a great device to hand to someone and say “here belay me on this”. The Jul is intuitive for any tube device user with 15 seconds instruction on the thumb loop. 

Ice climbing with beal gully I ve always belay and rap with a reverso. Simple, light, it simply works.  

For the reasons listed above, another vote for the ct alpine up

I got the BD "alpine guide" ATC. Performs phenomenally, though I'm not catching a lot of falls.

Climbing Technology Alpine Up.  Great assisted belay lead mode.  Guide mode lowers easily without complicated security systems.  Makes cleaning stuck ropes on rappel safe and easy.

It can be jerky starting a long hanging rap, but there is a workaround (not the one in the manual).

And, don't use it on thicker ropes (as stated above).

Here's a strong vote against the MegaJul. I had high expectations for that device and was sorely disappointed by the huge amount of friction when belaying from above. I've gone back to a ATC for halfs but wish I could have something with assisted belay when belaying a leader. Maybe the GigaJul or others mentioned are a better solution but I haven't tried them. 

Skyler Mavorwrote:

Here's a strong vote against the MegaJul. I had high expectations for that device and was sorely disappointed by the huge amount of friction when belaying from above. I've gone back to a ATC for halfs but wish I could have something with assisted belay when belaying a leader. Maybe the GigaJul or others mentioned are a better solution but I haven't tried them. 

I don't like either the micro or mega jul.  The gigajul is much better but still not as good as the Alpine up.

The petzl atc guide, I forgot the name, has the a rope diameter range that covers down to the same point as the bd alpine guide but also works with larger ropes. Best atc I’ve ever owned 

Thanks everyone. I think I’m leaning toward the micro jul or the alpine atc. I already have a gigi and an atc guide. The alpine up looks quite cumbersome. Maybe if I can find one in person I’ll consider it more. 

Jake Swrote:

Thanks everyone. I think I’m leaning toward the micro jul or the alpine atc. I already have a gigi and an atc guide. The alpine up looks quite cumbersome. Maybe if I can find one in person I’ll consider it more. 

They are quite cumbersome but the plus side is you can give a really good belay with them.

Jake Swrote:

Thanks everyone. I think I’m leaning toward the micro jul or the alpine atc. I already have a gigi and an atc guide. The alpine up looks quite cumbersome. Maybe if I can find one in person I’ll consider it more. 

You're making decisions on looks?  I think the UP is the least cumbersome to actually belay with if you are using halfs. Anything with enough friction will work for twins.  

There's a substantial difference in belay technique---are you familiar with what's involved in half-rope belaying?

You've got a mixture of recommendations for devices, some of which are assisted-belaying and some of which are not. (Most but not all of the assisted-belay devices have a non-assisted mode, but there are some questions about whether the level of friction is adequate when used that way, especially for half-rope belaying when falls have to be held on a single strand. ) These recommendations come without much in the way of reasoning supporting the choices.

The first thing you have to do is decide between assisted and non-assisted.  In the case of half ropes, remember that the belayer will be called on to hold falls on a single 7.5 -- 8.5 mm strand while gripping two strands in the braking hand.  Tests by Jim Titt indicate a reduction in gripping strength in this configuration to add to the issue of small diameters. (Plenty of experience in the UK indicates that most belayers have been able to cope with this just fine.  However, ropes are getting thinner and, in many cases, more slippery, so that historical success may need to be viewed with caution.)

You should think about how much and how seriously you intend to use half-rope technique, because handling is much more critical in that context.  The belayer has to be able to pump out slack fast for clips on one strand without also pumping out the other strand, and/or locking up the device if it is an assisted-locking gadget, and for ordinary movement has to be able to pay out one strand while taking in the other.  Even if skilled, accidental locking happens from time to time with both assisted and non-assisted devices; there has to be an instantaneous and totally effective way to unlock the device.  Thumb-loop based devices tie up one hand in keeping the device levered away from the body so as not to short-rope the leader.  The other hand has to rush back and forth pulling in one strand while pushing out the other.  The UP is the only device that gives you other options for paying out and taking in slack, if you master the appropriate pinching technique with your fingers so as to have independent control (not hard to do but one of several things single-rope belayers don't learn).  

With regard to handling, I have to mention a personal idiosyncrasy, which is that I keep my braking hand in the palm-up position, which facilitates the various taking-in and paying-out operations with half ropes.  Of course, when it comes to braking, the palm-up position is more awkward and probably comes with a reduction in grip strength.  Adding this to the other grip-reducing features of thin slippery ropes and single-strand catches makes assisted-braking the way to go for me.  The UP and the BD pilot are, I think, the only devices that accommodate the palm up style.  Anything with a thumb loop immobilizes the brake hand in the palm-down position.

I don't know whether practical consequences have ever been observed "in the field," but (again) tests by Jim Titt indicate many of the assisted-locking devices have a surprising fall-off in their grip-multiplying power when the loads are high.  The UP is substantially better than the others in this regard, but with a downside that under very high loads there was sometimes some rope damage. Pick yer poison...

A pervasive (and I think overblown) argument for Grigri's is their ability to lock up and stop a leader fall if the belayer is rendered unconscious (without rope damage from the cam).  I think the performance of most of the assisted-locking devices is unknown in such circumstances (among other things, it may depend on how much rope weight is in the system below the device).  The only test I've seen does confirm that an untended UP will lock during a test fall.  Whether that single test can be trusted and/or generalized is an open question.

None of the assisted-braking devices is a joy to rappel with.  You definitely don't want to use the UP with thicker ropes.  I use mine with 8.5 halves, and if there is a lot of rope weight, the first 10m or so can involve feeding the brake strand into the device to get and keep moving.  If you let go of the release lever on the UP while rappelling, the device locks reliably, even, as far as I've been able to tell, when there is very little rope weight on the brake side.  So no third-hand backup and the extensions commonly used with it are required.  Moreover, the UP works as a progress-capture device without any change in orientation or need to unweight and reconfigure.  You can easily go back up a bit just by releasing the handle and then pulling rope through the device.  I haven't tried this with any of the other assisted brakes so don't know if they are analogously effective.

Upper belays with the device direct off the anchor are another issue, and one I'm not the best person to weigh in because I use the technique infrequently.  People with more experience tell me that the UP is not among the best devices for this.  I've used it without issues, and have found it easy to manipulate and without what I'd think of as excessive resistance, but again my experience is limited. Releasing the device for lowering is analogous to the other plaquettes, with some of the same issues of potential loss of control.  If effective off-the-anchor top belays are a priority, the DMM pivot is probably the best bet, but it isn't an assisted-braking device and is not really optimized for thin ropes.  With single ropes, some people are using a Grigri to belay the leader and a Gi-Gi plate or conventional guide-style plaquette for belaying the second.  The leader carries the plaquette and the belayer uses the Grigri.  A similar strategy could be invoked for the UP and other assisted-belay devices.  A warning is in order about this; one of the team will be rappelling with a plaquette whose level of friction for thin ropes might be inadequate for a comfortable descent.  The person rappelling with the plaquette should know how to set it up for increased friction and, perhaps more importantly, should know how to increase friction "on the fly" in mid-rappel when there is no option to momentarily unweight the system.  As with many procedures, much heartache can be avoided by practicing first in a safe and controlled situation.