New crampons for ice

Hey everyone,

I am returning to ice climbing after a 10+ year hiatus.  I updated most of my gear (boots, tools, screws, etc.) but am wondering how much crampons have improved over the last 15 years.  I have a pair of really old Charlet Moser Grade8 monos that fit my boots fine, but am considering updating those as well.  I probably won't be using these more than about 15 days per year and almost all of that will be on ice.  I have other spikes for mountaineering, so I don't need these for anything but ice.  I might climb a little bit of mixed stuff, but it will be pretty minimal.  i was looking online at Blade Runners, Alpine Techs, and Cyborgs, but since I haven't tried any of them, I'd love to hear what you all have to say.  If it makes any difference, I have quite a bit of experience on ice up to WI6 and mixed up to M7, but admittedly that was a long time ago.  I'm hoping that after a couple days of clumsiness, I'll remember what I'm doing out there and my footwork will be reasonably solid.  

Thanks!

Hi Nathan,  weight seems to be the biggest factor with most of the newer stuff, short of the advancement in leashless ergo tools.  The ability to tune the points and replace makes a difference.  Blade runner is a solid choice.  If your in Bend, like myself a lot of the year, where you planning for ice.  I've been sharpening up skills in Ouray/San Juans the last 3 weeks.  Planning now for time in February and March.  Let me know what you might be getting into.  

ATB,  Henry.

Hey Henry, that makes sense.  The tools were the obvious upgrade and I'm anxious to try them out.  I got a set of BD Reactors, so hopefully they work for me.  

I'll be in Ouray/Ridgway area for most of February.  My wife and I are both from Colorado and after spending the last few years in Bend, we are looking at moving back home.  I'm gonna climb in Ouray quite a bit to get my feet back under me then will make additional plans from there.  If we end up staying in Bend, I'll probably schedule a couple trips next winter to Ouray, Hyalite, and RMNP (I have family in Fort Collins) as it doesn't seem like there is much in the way of ice climbing around here.  Once you get your dates nailed down for Ouray next month, let me know.  It would be fun to hit the ice park with you if you are available.  Thanks!

Consider the Petzl Darts as well, they are my favorite crampon for mixed that I've run across thus far, super minimal but robust design, the front section points are really well thought through with a good angle on the rear facing tertiary points making point hooking a breeze on steep ground, not to mention, you can swap out front sections on them. I have one pair of heels that I use with both my sarken and dart front sections with both bails and baskets.

Assuming your crampons look like these:

I'd just keep climbing on them as long as they still fit your boots. Front and secondary points look like they're reasonably positioned, climb them til you run out of front points then upgrade. And borrow partners crampons to try them out in the mean time.

Greg speaks the truth. Thin frontpoints rule for cold, bullet-hard ice.

FYI - I have a few replacement points for Grade 8s (and the "Nova" crampon that preceded them. Anyone remember THOSE?) socked away. But they will command a hefty price if you want them.

Yep, that's what I've got.  I still have an extra set of front points from back in the day, so if I opt out of buying new ones, I'll be set for at least the remainder of this season.  Thanks!

Well no argument from me to just keep rolling with the Grade 8’s if you liked them.  You’ll only notice relatively minor improvements (weight being one) going to Darts, etc or any new crampon  

but…..personally, I went from Grade 8 to M10’s to Grivel RamboComps…then dabbled with everything already mentioned and more in between mostly settling mainly on G20+ For 90% of ice/mixed.

The thing I personally like most about the Rambo/G20 Grivel designs (aside from the front point and geometry) is the more rigid frame structure compared to most others.   I find it less “rattly” and has less “micro-give” (that infinitesimal and barely noticeable damping and compression that takes place with common bar adjustable non rigid crampons—no matter how tightly you adjust them) on each kick resulting in a more positive and precise placement for less kick effort.

Of course, most make up for this with a little extra strength and skill and it goes largely unnoticed….but then those of us on the edges of the spectrum are already either fully maxed out in this respect, or woefully lacking altogether, thus we turn to fine tunes in equipment to make advances, lol

Mark Pilatewrote:

Well no argument from me to just keep rolling with the Grade 8’s if you liked them.  You’ll only notice relatively minor improvements (weight being one) going to Darts, etc or any new crampon  

but…..personally, I went from Grade 8 to M10’s to Grivel RamboComps…then dabbled with everything already mentioned and more in between mostly settling mainly on G20+ For 90% of ice/mixed.

The thing I personally like most about the Rambo/G20 Grivel designs (aside from the front point and geometry) is the more rigid frame structure compared to most others.   I find it less “rattly” and has less “micro-give” (that infinitesimal and barely noticeable damping and compression that takes place with common bar adjustable non rigid crampons—no matter how tightly you adjust them) on each kick resulting in a more positive and precise placement for less kick effort.

Of course, most make up for this with a little extra strength and skill and it goes largely unnoticed….but then those of us on the edges of the spectrum are already either fully maxed out in this respect, or woefully lacking altogether, thus we turn to fine tunes in equipment to make advances, lol

Hey Mark,

How many places on the g20+ does it articulate? I had thought from pictures that the G22+ had one place where it can rotate, namely where the “monorail” attaches to the front section. Turns out it has one more place, further up, and I hate it. Was curious if the g20+ had the same thing.

Thanks

if you are on a budget these are almost new and only $80.00 free shipping.  cassin  alpinist pro.   model from 2 years ago.  they climb great.   SOLD!

DeLa Crucewrote:

Hey Mark,

How many places on the g20+ does it articulate? I had thought from pictures that the G22+ had one place where it can rotate, namely where the “monorail” attaches to the front section. Turns out it has one more place, further up, and I hate it. Was curious if the g20+ had the same thing.

Thanks

DeLa Cruce — the G20+ only articulates in the one place shown in red circle.  And only in the “Y” direction (using the axes shown in lower pic) 

There is no articulation or looseness in the “X” direction — kicking direction.

Compared to the Snaggletooth (and I love the Snaggletooth) which is similar to others like the Alpinist Pro shown in Nicks photo, that are “loose” in all axes at 2 points, the G20+ is much tighter and more rigid in all axes.  Even the bails are tight and stand up by themselves rather than flop.  

Now I am not sure if this tightness holds across all samples or I just happened to get a really tight one, or once it has the same number of years on it as my others, it’ll loosen significantly, but so far it’s a noticeable performance benefit - subtle and hair splitting as it is   

Mark Pilatewrote:

DeLa Cruce — the G20+ only articulates in the one place shown in red circle.  And only in the “Y” direction (using the axes shown in lower pic) 

There is no articulation or looseness in the “X” direction — kicking direction.

Compared to the Snaggletooth (and I love the Snaggletooth) which is similar to others like the Alpinist Pro shown in Nicks photo, that are “loose” in all axes at 2 points, the G20+ is much tighter and more rigid in all axes.  Even the bails are tight and stand up by themselves rather than flop.  

Now I am not sure if this tightness holds across all samples or I just happened to get a really tight one, or once it has the same number of years on it as my others, it’ll loosen significantly, but so far it’s a noticeable performance benefit - subtle and hair splitting as it is   

Another benefit of the G20+ is you can get the Katana replacement front points for it which are very thin and excellent for cold hard and brittle ice

Mark Pilatewrote:

DeLa Cruce — the G20+ only articulates in the one place shown in red circle.  And only in the “Y” direction (using the axes shown in lower pic) 

There is no articulation or looseness in the “X” direction — kicking direction.

Compared to the Snaggletooth (and I love the Snaggletooth) which is similar to others like the Alpinist Pro shown in Nicks photo, that are “loose” in all axes at 2 points, the G20+ is much tighter and more rigid in all axes.  Even the bails are tight and stand up by themselves rather than flop.  

Now I am not sure if this tightness holds across all samples or I just happened to get a really tight one, or once it has the same number of years on it as my others, it’ll loosen significantly, but so far it’s a noticeable performance benefit - subtle and hair splitting as it is   

Thanks Mark, and referring to your picture, the G22 plus has another connection with a bolt right where the rear cross beam of the yellow front part meets the front point on your picture, given that the g22 does not have the piece going all the way back. I can see now how having that front point extend all the way to the middle of the foot would give it that old-school rigid feel. Thanks again