New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #19

Lori. It doesn't have to be low angle. It just has to have positive holds.  COR has some of the most positive holds I have experienced...  its for the most part grippy rock with good holds and good pro.   I have never been to JT but almost everyone I have talked to or listened to says it has no holds and no pro which has pretty much clinched it for me. If i am going to drive that far i am going to Red rocks. Great holds and great pro ;)   I suspect after all your  hard work learning to climb in JT if you ever get to some of these other places that have holds you just might be a crusher  ;) 

Todd Berlier wrote:

dark object at 10 o'clock...?

There is a large black triangular hold in the upper left quadrant of the photo. On my phone screen, I interpreted the hold as your body climbing on the wall, which would mean you have a 60 foot tall wall. Like I said, I had just woke up!

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

" I have never been to JT but almost everyone I have talked to or listened to says it has no holds and no pro "

Huh? Jtree has about 9,000 routes with about 1,000 bona fide sport climbs. Face climbs from low-angle slabs to high-angle slabs to vertical with positive holds to overhanging test pieces. Every conceivable type of crack climb. I've climbed extensively at Red Rocks and Jtree, but if I had to pick one, I'd take Joshua Tree. I like the vibe of the place, and the variety of the climbing. 

Bob Gaines wrote:

Huh? Jtree has about 9,000 routes with about 1,000 bona fide sport climbs. Face climbs from low-angle slabs to vertical with positive holds to overhanging test pieces. Every conceivable type of crack climb. I've climbed extensively at Red Rocks and Jtree, but if I had to pick one, I'd take Joshua Tree. I like the vibe of the place, and the variety of the climbing. 

Bob is absolutely correct. Josh has a huge variety of types of climbs. However, I will observe that unlike Red Rocks (where the sport ratings are generally soft), Josh sport routes can be quite technical.

While Bob is correct, if I was picking a place to solo easy routes, I would be in Red Rocks every day and not Josh.  I've done so much more climbing in Josh but I've probably done more feet of soloing in Red Rocks and there is a really good reason for that.  One place has more positive holds and it isn't Josh.

I really love Red Rocks too, particularly the steep face climbing, but I think if I lived there that one-way loop road would get to be a real bummer.

I went off to Thorn Buttress today (I know you don’t know where that is but you could look it up on the crag if interested).
Funny morning in a way. I slipped over on the way to the crag just past a stream on slippery wet rock and felt like I partially dislocated my L shoulder. TRd two easy routes as a warm up. Aga led the 21 I led a few weeks ago (October) then she asked if I wanted to try and just go draw to draw (because of my shoulder). I sort of mistakenly led it again as ‘the fight’ kicked in. Nice day.

Be careful Carl. I had a couple of glasses of wine the other night and went out to get the mail in the dark.  The driveway is a sheet of ice with a light dusting of snow over it.  Slipped on the ice and hit the ground hard before I even knew it.  Lay there for a minute scanning my body before I carefully got up.  Good thing we are young and supple, lol.

Bob. I am literally going by the way all you guys talk about the place and every single climb you talk about is desperate in one way or another ;)  No holds mantles in the leg breaking zone. desperate polished slabs with chopped bolts. 5.9s that should be 11c.  You paint a picture of sandbagged, slippery desperate climbing.   If your motive was to keep the crowds down  you got me ;)     I totally understand how my impression is  likely erroneous never the less thats how the place has been billed on this thread.   I haven't heard a single JT rave about a climb with great gear, killer exposure and positive moves on this thread or anywhere else for that matter.  Thats not to say they don't exist but apparently the JT mindset is to  embrace the  tough guy/gal persona and never talk about good gear, positive moves and pleasurable climbs. 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Bob. I am literally going by the way all you guys talk about the place and every single climb you talk about is desperate in one way or another ;)  No holds mantles in the leg breaking zone. desperate polished slabs with chopped bolts. 5.9s that should be 11c.  You paint a picture of sandbagged, slippery desperate climbing.   If your motive was to keep the crowds down  you got me ;)     I totally understand how my impression is  likely erroneous never the less thats how the place has been billed on this thread.   I haven't heard a single JT rave about a climb with great gear, killer exposure and positive moves on this thread or anywhere else for that matter.  Thats not to say they don't exist but apparently the JT mindset is to  embrace the  tough guy/gal persona and never talk about good gear, positive moves and pleasurable climbs. 

I haven’t been to JT in a long time, but slippery is one word I definitely would not use. The grain had some of the most abrasive friction I’ve climbed on. Some face climbs were less abrasive but the friction was very good compared to a lot of other places I’ve been. And there was no shortage of amazing well protected  crack climbs.

Gosh, Nick. I feel bad. I think I have been a lousy ambassador for this place.  So much of what I write is really seeking tips or guidance on climbing here (Kris, Jan have been invaluable with this)--maybe it sounds more like complaining.  There are times I get very frustrated.    I hope Bob, Randy and others will clear the record or give a more fairhanded view. 

I haven't seen a lot of other rock, but I have climbed at the Auburn limestone quarry a number of times (which I can only describe as creepy), Lovers Leap in Strawberry, quite a bit in Donner/Truckee during the last three summers, and a few times at Consumnes River Gorge.  I haven't fallen in love with any of them.  

Long before I ever thought of climbing I used to come to Joshua Tree for its peace, its vibe... its quite a powerful place.  I would stop by the little tourist store just to soak in the hippy-ness, I heard my first Damian Marley song there, and saw artists leaving fliers for gatherings.  There were 'yoga under the full moon' fests, and obviously campers dropping in to pick up supplies.  

I remember parking out in front of the little climbing store, Nomads, and watching young sun-baked people walking in, laughing... me sitting in my car feeling SO aged and as though I had missed an opportunity for a different life.  I bought a book on climbing (could have been one of Bob's!) to hand off to my daughter to say "Hey, maybe you should try this."  In fact, she ran with it and got into mountaineering.

I can only say that from my very first climb here (W.A.C.), years later, I was hooked.  It totally engaged me... I've noted a lot of scientists and engineers climb here, loving to apply physics to these routes.  Only now do I have a kind of appreciation for this particular rock... after pulling off chunks of wet, loose limestone in Auburn over and over, hiking through poison oak and being exhausted at Consumnes, or just not wowed in Donner... this granite is hard, solid, dependable (mostly   ). 

You get an eye for a line here, and it doesn't let go.  Others will hopefully weigh in on this... is it the same elsewhere?  I've joked about Houser, but from the moment I saw Loose Lady (located on the Houser Buttress) I was awed... HOW can this be climbed, and what would it take for me to climb it?  It does call for you to develop a certain skill set, probably not used as often elsewhere. I always have the sense of unreality on these routes, that they are so improbable... and yet, there you are, climbing them. 

Also... in fairness... the routes I report in on are mostly NOT strengthy upper body routes--but if someone else were here writing about J Tree it would likely be about much different terrain, but there are plenty of routes that have 'positive holds'... some that feel a lot like gym climbs.  There are whole walls of routes that are just muscle-up climbs, lots of fun.   Maybe it would be fair to characterize some of these routes as extended boulder problems?  (This is Jeremy, demonstrating how I was supposed to master Dog Day Afternoon crux.      AS IF... ) 

Lots of positive holds... just not my thing. 

It's interesting to me that the Yosemite gang climbed here, alternating seasons back and forth.  And Tahquitz climbers come down to Josh, so mountain/alpine climbing trades off with desert climbing. There's value to all of it.  

What a great place to get strong and happy.  It's not for everyone.  It's so easy to get lost and disoriented, dehydrated... and there are snakes.  And bugs. (big ones).  Lots of dirt.  

I have just talked myself into staying.    

     

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Bob. I am literally going by the way all you guys talk about the place and every single climb you talk about is desperate in one way or another ;)  No holds mantles in the leg breaking zone. desperate polished slabs with chopped bolts. 5.9s that should be 11c.  You paint a picture of sandbagged, slippery desperate climbing.   If your motive was to keep the crowds down  you got me ;)     I totally understand how my impression is  likely erroneous never the less thats how the place has been billed on this thread.   I haven't heard a single JT rave about a climb with great gear, killer exposure and positive moves on this thread or anywhere else for that matter.  Thats not to say they don't exist but apparently the JT mindset is to  embrace the  tough guy/gal persona and never talk about good gear, positive moves and pleasurable climbs. 

Maybe you are just trying to good naturally provoke, but I can't recall having talked about Joshua Tree climbing in the terms you describe.

 There are tons of well protected classic routes of all grades. I will note that the routes posted by Lori and others don't necessarily reflect the very wide variety of climbs in the Park.

Here is a steep, well protected route on impeccable stone:

Lori- so we scared off Nick! LOL Nick the reality of Josh is that everything is pretty darn short- like really short. But the gems are tucked away in little corridors and piles of rocks. I don’t think Lori has climbed any of that stuff and the guides really don’t take clients way out. Joshua Tree has its own character, “short, sharp and shocked” is what I think about it. If you know how to really place pro - not just stick cams- the protection can be fabulous and the star climbs are some of the tastiest climbing ever, but again short.
Red Rocks…. Was one heck of a place to climb back in the day… Personally I never liked the protection offered by sandstone or the long raps off of crap anchors. One I recall was off of a pile of mud for 165, overhung feet to the deck, when it was my turn a chunk of that mud broke off and hit me in my face! As for free solos on that crap- NFW! Jan McCullum is HI me thinks. :)

Now if you’re really thinking about climbing in California the places to go, in no order are: Yosemite, the Needles and Shuteye all granite. Only Yosemite is crowded.

And to close. Lori is Tony getting PT? I go to a place that’s mostly for athletes. I’ve asked them to up my intensity level because I’m finally starting to improve some and really want to get back. They just laugh at me and tell me “be patient what they did to your spine takes a long time to heal and recover from and the muscles kind of went away due to the bad circulation and pinched nerves, stick to the program”….. I’m very motivated, if I wasn’t it would be easy to just enjoy the pain free life the surgery restored me to and sit on the couch. Doing the PT hurts.

Give him time.

Edit: Randy- excellent climb! 

Guy Keesee wrote:

Lori- so we scared off Nick! LOL Nick the reality of Josh is that everything is pretty darn short- like really short. But the gems are tucked away in little corridors and piles of rocks. I don’t think Lori has climbed any of that stuff and the guides really don’t take clients way out. Joshua Tree has its own character, “short, sharp and shocked” is what I think about it. If you know how to really place pro - not just stick cams- the protection can be fabulous and the star climbs are some of the tastiest climbing ever, but again short.

And to close. Lori is Tony getting PT? I go to a place that’s mostly for athletes. I’ve asked them to up my intensity level because I’m finally starting to improve some and really want to get back. They just laugh at me and tell me “be patient what they did to your spine takes a long time to heal and recover from and the muscles kind of went away due to the bad circulation and pinched nerves, stick to the program”….. I’m very motivated, if I wasn’t it would be easy to just enjoy the pain free life the surgery restored me to and sit on the couch. Doing the PT hurts.

Give him time.

Edit: Randy- excellent climb! 

HEYYYYY!  I do too climb obscure places here it’s just that ON PAIN OF DEATH I’m not allowed to share!  (My spell check wrote “obscene” not obscure    — probably the better choice).  Does anyone have sex on these rocks?  (Redacted)

All the wonderful suggestions about Tony, thank you so much.  I’m trying to understand and you all have helped.  Generally speaking I’m not into pushing, just trying to find that fine line here.  Yes, he’s getting PT. I think it helps him to hear that it can be painful and that it’s ok.  A work in progress here.   

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Bob. I am literally going by the way all you guys talk about the place and every single climb you talk about is desperate in one way or another ;)  No holds mantles in the leg breaking zone. desperate polished slabs with chopped bolts. 5.9s that should be 11c.  You paint a picture of sandbagged, slippery desperate climbing.  

I'm pretty sure Lori's love of slab and penchant for dramatic storytelling may have influenced you. I can name a ton of really great climbs with holds and protection and everything. Just ask. Gaines and Randy, of course, are the literal encyclopedia of J-Tree knowledge, so they're a resource, too. 

Wow, Shuteye Ridge has some sweet looking long 1-pitch routes.  Being a NE bum, I have never even heard of the place before now.

You guys totally scared me off! heck you JT climbers bowl overhand. Every single story you guys have told is about polished holds, no feet, henious mantle way above the bolt,  It was too desperate to drill so I ran it to the top, someone chopped all the bolts and its wicked sandbagged. Meanwhile in Red Rocks  we have  stuff like POD. 7 pitches of insanly positive in cut crimpers with  a reasonable amount of bolts and great stoppers in between.  It does suck now with all the rules and people but it was pretty darn fun in 86 . my other favorite places to climb in the west are Custer state park. that has a reputation of being scary but really lots of the climbs have good gear and really positive knobs to climb on.  COR was the same deal.  grippy rock, lots of holds and great gear.   I have heard folks diss the tetons rock quality but for someone used to cannon I thought it was pretty darn good.  East fork of the Rosebud was awesome as was Cody

 so many places where the climbing is fun that i don't need to go somewhere where  they advertise that the climbing is not fun ;)   

I got wigged out on Josh bolted routes like Red Headed Stranger, 5.11 well protected bolt ladder then easy climbing to a ledge where I left my rack behind and did the 9 bulge looking at a death fall,  really?  

 Decided to only climb cracks and had a much better time.  Okellys and Wangerbanger are awesome.   

Ward Smith wrote:

I got wigged out on Josh bolted routes like Red Headed Stranger, 5.11 well protected bolt ladder then easy climbing to a ledge where I left my rack behind and did the 9 bulge looking at a death fall,  really?  

 Decided to only climb cracks and had a much better time.  Okellys and Wangerbanger are awesome.   

That is soooo funny... The "red headed stranger" is actually a NAEC50 poster!

Ward Smith wrote:

I got wigged out on Josh bolted routes like Red Headed Stranger, 5.11 well protected bolt ladder then easy climbing to a ledge where I left my rack behind and did the 9 bulge looking at a death fall,  really?  

 Decided to only climb cracks and had a much better time.  Okellys and Wangerbanger are awesome.   

Funny story about that. Dan Leichtfuss and Darryl Nakahira had bolted this line, but may have had trouble getting past the last bolt? I happened to be hiking by, and they asked me to give it a shot, which I did. Total cameo lead through with none of the work. Hence the name. 

Leaving your rack behind was a perhaps a mistake as I believe there is protection to be had higher up.