Did they ACTUALLY free Action Directe?

I was reading about ascents of Action Directe and got to looking at the video footage. It looks to me like the rope comes taut on Megos and Ondra and Dai when they do the crux jump. Dai’s rope looks the most obvious to saving him from peeling off the wall. Megos looks also like the rope helps him. The others I saw looked more legit. 

Thoughts??? Am I crazy??? Obviously it’s not my place to judge as a nobody but as far as style goes, the tight rope makes me think not as good style. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/e8geci/said_belhaj_lying_about_action_directe_ascent_and/

links are further down in the comments, apologies for not attaching the direct links, it’s my first internet day. 

Anyway, kind of fun to watch them all and compare the style etc. Fascinating awesome bench mark route that I will never climb!

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion on how taught a rope is allowed to be or not, but if someone has climbed 9a, their opinion might possibly be more valid

I remember hearing this Said guy on enormo

The topic seems kind of old, but that Reddit thread was pretty funny 

Usually Ondra is the first one to discredit his own efforts if there are shenanigans. I wouldn't know if Megos or Dai have the same self criticism or not. Id trust that Ondra would have done it again if he felt like it helped him.

Microtakes.

Awesome new “issue” to debate.   Rope friction dabs.  How taut was the rope through natural friction through all the draws, and how much did it help (or hinder) for the grade?  

I think any and all sends need to be evaluated by a committee of chuff-tards to validate.

Any route, even ropeless 5.3, cannot be considered sent until the footage is properly vetted. We probably need several camera angles to be sure.

I gotta give those men the benefit of the doubt, myself. They sent because they said so. Who am I to judge anyway? And I don’t mean that as a moral statement, but rather one of ability and talent. :)

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsionwrote:

I think any and all sends need to be evaluated by a committee of chuff-tards to validate.

Any route, even ropeless 5.3, cannot be considered sent until the footage is properly vetted. We probably need several camera angles to be sure.

Are you saying I DON’T have to document my 5.1 project. 

You do know Europeans do 9a everyday between second breakfast and their biscotti break on their 3 month paid paternity leave right?

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I gotta give those men the benefit of the doubt, myself. They sent because they said so. Who am I to judge anyway? And I don’t mean that as a moral statement, but rather one of ability and talent. :)

As sponsored athletes they are obligated to prove that they sent the route cleanly that they are basically making money on with their ascent. 

They could all use a lesson from the grandfather of purity, Verm: "If a spotter so much as brushes Verm's shoelace during an ascent, Verm will have to climb the problem again "cleanly" or he won't count it."

Well, Bachar famously said in his interview with Bard in '98 "if you had a rope on, you didn't REALLY do the climb". I think it's safe to say, nobody has REALLY climbed action directe. I replaced all my rope-side carabiners on my alpine draws (always extend!) and cams with DMM Revolver Wire Gates, and I climb on the beal opera with a loose belay--often breaking pitches up into multiple pitches (as long as there is a true hands free stance!!) to minimize any possible rope drag. But this is just how I personally like to practice for REAL climbing. Ondra and Megos seem to do it differently--but they never seem to do any REAL climbing anyway. 

Recall also Bachar decking on that roof thing in Eldo b/c he didn’t realize how much the rope checked the swing.

Clear, irrefutable evidence - retrograde evolution.

Tradibanwrote:

As sponsored athletes they are obligated to prove that they sent the route cleanly that they are basically making money on with their ascent. 

I’ve seen a handful of contracts for professional climbers over the years.  I’m sure I even sign pretty much the exact contract that Megos signs.  Believe it or not there is zero language in the contract that obligates us to send or prove anything. Pros aren’t legally obligated so I’m assuming you mean they are morally obligated?  Having had a few discussions about “sending” (or in my case the lack of “sending”) with sponsors over the years there also isn’t any moral obligation.  So who exactly are pros obligated to?  You?  The general climbing community?  And at what point in a professional climbers path to being a pro does this obligation start?  This is the first I’ve heard of this obligation so I’m wondering if I missed it during onboarding…

I can say without a doubt that I climb better without a tight belay so I would have to see the clip to make any judgement. And no, not gonna look it up!

Mikey Schaeferwrote:

I’ve seen a handful of contracts for professional climbers over the years.  I’m sure I even sign pretty much the exact contract that Megos signs.  Believe it or not there is zero language in the contract that obligates us to send or prove anything. Pros aren’t legally obligated so I’m assuming you mean they are morally obligated?  Having had a few discussions about “sending” (or in my case the lack of “sending”) with sponsors over the years there also isn’t any moral obligation.  So who exactly are pros obligated to?  You?  The general climbing community?  And at what point in a professional climbers path to being a pro does this obligation start?  This is the first I’ve heard of this obligation so I’m wondering if I missed it during onboarding…

No one likes a cheater Mikey. The are obligated in the sense of maintaining their cachet. Not being sponsored I would still drop off if I felt the rope go tight, it's about integrity....and then dogpile on the belayor.

Harry Kwrote:

I was reading about ascents of Action Directe and got to looking at the video footage. It looks to me like the rope comes taut on Megos and Ondra and Dai when they do the crux jump. Dai’s rope looks the most obvious to saving him from peeling off the wall. Megos looks also like the rope helps him. The others I saw looked more legit. 

Thoughts??? Am I crazy??? Obviously it’s not my place to judge as a nobody but as far as style goes, the tight rope makes me think not as good style. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/e8geci/said_belhaj_lying_about_action_directe_ascent_and/

links are further down in the comments, apologies for not attaching the direct links, it’s my first internet day. 

Anyway, kind of fun to watch them all and compare the style etc. Fascinating awesome bench mark route that I will never climb!

Clearly this most important question needs to arbitrated by someone with the credibility such as Tony Kurtz.

Tradibanwrote:

No one likes a cheater Mikey. The are obligated in the sense of maintaining their cachet. Not being sponsored I would still drop off if I felt the rope go tight, it's about integrity.

BUWAHAHAHAHAHA. Holier-than-thou Tradi-never-dogs?

This is my favorite kind of look at me troll. The "I'm more pure than you" troll.

Trying to convince others anything they do while climbing should matter to anyone but themselves but they'll get some nibbles.

Worked for the Ultimate Climbing Troll, Bachar, for years. He convinced all kinds of people they had to be as pure as he was so he could be the best cause he was the best at his style of climbing, for a time.

Suddenly when Boreal shoe sales tanked he had an epiphany and became "nice".

Sprayloard Overstokerwrote:

BUWAHAHAHAHAHA. Holier-than-thou Tradi-never-dogs?

This is my favorite kind of look at me troll. The "I'm more pure than you" troll.

Trying to convince others anything they do while climbing should matter to anyone but themselves but they'll get some nibbles.

Worked for the Ultimate Climbing Troll, Bachar, for years. He convinced all kinds of people they had to be as pure as he was so he could be the best cause he was the best at his style of climbing, for a time.

Suddenly when Boreal shoe sales tanked he had an epiphany and became "nice".

Ya, I guess I am basically the same as Bachar. Far out!

Tradibanwrote:

Ya, I guess I am basically the same as Bachar. Far out!

A pale imitation at best.

Bachar had an entire generation of great climbers in his wake and following his example.

You, just a handful of drunks.

Rob Dillonwrote:

Recall also Bachar decking on that roof thing in Eldo b/c he didn’t realize how much the rope checked the swing.

An Eldo story I haven't heard involving Bachar? Please do tell..