Detuning new ice tool picks

I would have kept the top sharp and been happy with your nice looking hooked tip mod. 

Andrei Verdeanuwrote:

Hey folks!

Joining the "detuning" discussion a bit. I've recently switched on BD Fuels for drytooling/mixed (coming from Grivel Tech Machine Carbon), for various reasons, and I quickly understood and liked the Fuels' stiffness, feel and precision on hard, overhanging drytooling. However, that being said, after testing them on easy ice (WI4) with the stock "Ice+" picks (the old ones, not the "Natural Ice+") I've also come to realize the shortcomings of the design of the picks and found the rumors about the "Fuels' substandard performance on ice" to be partly true. 

I know that the Fuels are far from a universal tool, and are by design more oriented towards mixed, but I'm an advocate of owning a single tool, and accepting the associated shortcomings. Now, coming from the easy, single swing secure placements of the Grivels and their Ice picks, I find fiddling around with the "Ice+" picks quite frustrating (more ice displacement, more swings required, harder to clean). Indeed, this might be a technique adaptation thing on my part, but since I'll be using the tools mostly for mixed/dry, and also for occasional pure ice, I figured I'd try and mod the BD picks to a shape that resembles that of the chiseled Ice Vario from Grivel (which, IMHO, offers butter smooth performance).

Now, onto the mod/detuning itself: do you think I went overboard with removing the material? I also plan to get some Kuznias for pure ice in the nearby future.

Thanks, 

Andrei

Hey Andrei, also a Fuel owner myself. I would get rid of those picks, personally, regardless of what you plan to climb. My Fuels came with those and I hated them. At first they just bounced, and after I was able to adjust my technique to avoid the bounce, they then got horribly stuck. I switched to the newer Natural Ice + and those are wayyyy better. It really is a great ice pick. That being said, if you plan to do a significant amount of mixed, I wouldn’t use those, as (a) they aren’t designed for it and (b) they won’t tolerate the abuse very well. Straight up dry tooling, BD mixed is good, or for actual mixed climbing (ice, snow rock) the Alpine pick, and as you say, accept the shortcomings on ice. But the ones you have on now, my guess is that even after you get them nicely tuned for ice like you have, you start placing them on rock ledges, maybe some light torquing, or very, very thin ice they won’t hold up or worse yet, they will break, as they just aren’t rated (T) for the harder moves

Andrei Verdeanuwrote:

Hey folks!

I know that the Fuels are far from a universal tool, and are by design more oriented towards mixed, but I'm an advocate of owning a single tool, and accepting the associated shortcomings. Now, coming from the easy, single swing secure placements of the Grivels and their Ice picks, I find fiddling around with the "Ice+" picks quite frustrating (more ice displacement, more swings required, harder to clean). Indeed, this might be a technique adaptation thing on my part, but since I'll be using the tools mostly for mixed/dry, and also for occasional pure ice, I figured I'd try and mod the BD picks to a shape that resembles that of the chiseled Ice Vario from Grivel (which, IMHO, offers butter smooth performance).

Now, onto the mod/detuning itself: do you think I went overboard with removing the material? I also plan to get some Kuznias for pure ice in the nearby future.

Thanks, 

Andrei

I like your pick mods for ice climbing, although I don’t think there is really any necessarily any performance advantage to the chisel shaped tip, when it comes to penetrating ice.  I would recommend just modding those picks to be used purely for ice climbing, and then get a separate set of picks for mixed and drytooling.  The stock picks don’t hook rock very well and no amount of modding will make them great for dry tooling.  

However, you should have realistic expectations for ice climbing with Fuels.  No amount of pick modding will change the harsh feedback that comes from the extremely stiff shaft.  Picks that penetrate ice with less resistance help reduce the harsh feedback, but doesn’t eliminate it.   I owned Fuels for several years, and I never really enjoyed climbing ice with them.  

DeLa Crucewrote:

Hey Andrei, also a Fuel owner myself. I would get rid of those picks, personally, regardless of what you plan to climb. My Fuels came with those and I hated them. At first they just bounced, and after I was able to adjust my technique to avoid the bounce, they then got horribly stuck. I switched to the newer Natural Ice + and those are wayyyy better. It really is a great ice pick. That being said, if you plan to do a significant amount of mixed, I wouldn’t use those, as (a) they aren’t designed for it and (b) they won’t tolerate the abuse very well. Straight up dry tooling, BD mixed is good, or for actual mixed climbing (ice, snow rock) the Alpine pick, and as you say, accept the shortcomings on ice. But the ones you have on now, my guess is that even after you get them nicely tuned for ice like you have, you start placing them on rock ledges, maybe some light torquing, or very, very thin ice they won’t hold up or worse yet, they will break, as they just aren’t rated (T) for the harder moves

Hey, thanks for the reply. Maybe I'll also get the "Natural Ice +" someday. For drytooling I'm using Kuznia Competition picks (as you said, I'll have to get the BD Mixed or Alpine for some real mixed). These modded ones, I only plan on using solely on ice.

Karl Henizewrote:

I like your pick mods for ice climbing, although I don’t think there is really any necessarily any performance advantage to the chisel shaped tip, when it comes to penetrating ice.  I would recommend just modding those picks to be used purely for ice climbing, and then get a separate set of picks for mixed and drytooling.  The stock picks don’t hook rock very well and no amount of modding will make them great for dry tooling.  

However, you should have realistic expectations for ice climbing with Fuels.  No amount of pick modding will change the harsh feedback that comes from the extremely stiff shaft.  Picks that penetrate ice with less resistance help the harsh feedback, but doesn’t eliminate it.   I owned Fuels for several years, and I never really enjoyed climbing ice with them.  

Hey Karl, indeed I modded those just for pure ice. Imho, the chisel shape cuts the ice and aids penetration, as the "beak-like" stock tips make contact with the ice surface at a strange angle. 

I guess you're right about expecting too much from the Fuels as far as pure ice is concerned.

Karl Henizewrote:

I owned Fuels for several years, and I never really enjoyed climbing ice with them.  

Hahaha… yeah. It’s my main tool now, and similar to the author, I would like to just accept the limitations and have only one main set but…it’s only really fun to hook with these tools. They hook phenomenally, even with the ice + pick (more open angle) but they aren’t fun to swing. Feels like swinging a cast iron skillet.