Ice climbing is (very) costy

If you look at the hardware that was used to establish WI 5 to 6 routes in the 70s and 80s in North America it is clear that the latest fancy gear is not required. Is it better? Fuck yeah! Necessary?  No.

When first gen Cobras came out i thought I was buying my last set of tools. I did use them for 10 years though so a very good ROE. 

Boots are the most costly item, but they will last for years for most people. 

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Ice climbing is pure technology ie you cannot do it at all without that technology.

Whereas rock climbing is a native human ability and requires no technology whatsoever.

Let's not get too carried away. There's a spectrum of costs in climbing but most rock climbers aren't free soloing barefoot. These are all privileged gear intensive hobbies to some extent, even bouldering in a typical 2022 gym with an espresso stand ain't cheap between membership costs and a periodic pair of new Solutions.

Soccer would be an example of a hobby with a low barrier to entry (hence, why it is the most popular sport in the world). 

Ice is on the other end of the spectrum, but not quite extreme. Think sailing, flying, scuba, sky diving or even high altitude mountaineering if you want to stick to climbing disciplines. Presuming you live near some ice you could fund a lifetime's worth of ice climbing for less than 1 Denali trip. 

But I think we're getting a little too deep into the weeds in this thread about which form of climbing is relatively more expensive/exclusive. If you live near mountains or a rock gym and have free time/transportation/basic gear to go climbing you already won the life lottery. Ice is awesome if you can make it happen, but you're doing alright regardless. 

OP: have your friend rent boots and go top roping? You can share crampons and tools. Surely you can find a harness to borrow.

i just checked my old MP messages. When I got into ice climbing, I started with:

$150 (for the set, not each) pair of used ice tools. Old, heavy givel tech wings. Were they "modern"? Not really, but they were enough to get me addicted and I used them for first 3 seasons and now they are my guest tools

$75 pair of used petzl sarken crampons. also used them for 3 seasons.

$225 pair of used nepal evos that I still use today. 

$450 is obviously cost-prohibitive for many people, but as has been mentioned for a totally discretionary and quite silly activity, not that bad. 

1)  is the cost of gear justified? - tools, screws, & crampons are carefully engineered, and manufactured to critical standard (read costly to produce) for a market that is relatively small, so economy of scale is not really achievable, so, yeah, cost is justified.

2)  for a climber using it for toproping only a few times a year, rental permits always climbing on the most up-to-date gear without spending big every other year or so to "upgrade".

3) shops who rent regularly sell their rentals to keep their inventories up to date.  once your buddy rents a few different models, he can probably make a deal to purchase the rental he lliked best.

-Haireball

Ice climbing is similar to skiing.  If you wanna play, youre gonna have to pay.  

You dont 'get into' leading ice from scratch, without already having half the stuff you need already.

Borrow and scrounge.  You get what you pay for.  Better gear = more fun experience.  

jdejacewrote:

I don't really understand the question? It's expensive, it's (highly) discretionary. It's kind of like asking if a restaurant meal or a good bottle of single malt are "justified." If you've got the money and it makes you happy, sure. If not, there are cheaper hobbies. I'd like a 40ft sailboat but my second mountain bike is on the way and we've all got limits. 

IME currently has a pair of lightly used BD reactors with almost new picks on consignment right now. $300 for the pair.

jdejacewrote:

OP: have your friend rent boots and go top roping? You can share crampons and tools. Surely you can find a harness to borrow.

Couldn't help him since I was ice climbing myself the same day and of course I don't have double of everything.

Fabien Mwrote:

Couldn't help him since I was ice climbing myself the same day and of course I don't have double of everything.

I've found that most of the ice climbers who have been at it for a long time not only have double of everything, maybe even triple.  I can outfit two other climbers, obviously boot size needs to be similar to me.  But then again, I also have some old school crampons that will work without the welt on the boot.  They are a pain, but hey, they get you up vertical ice.  Between my modern ice tools, and my old school X15s, I can outfit a team.  And many of the climbers that I know that have been at it a while, are in a similar position with their gear.

I know I am not the only one who does not throw out gear.  It just goes in the gear closet forever...

Fabien Mwrote:

Couldn't help him since I was ice climbing myself the same day and of course I don't have double of everything.

Well the bar has kind of changed. If the purpose of the day was to introduce your friend to ice climbing on a top rope with the lowest $$ possible, it should be acceptable to share tools and even crampons, they really just need boots that fit (can even use most ski boots).

If the bar for accessibility is that now each new participant needs a pair of brand new dark machines to twiddle their thumbs with while they wait for the top rope to become free, then of course its going to be expensive. 

x15x15wrote:

I've found that most of the ice climbers who have been at it for a long time not only have double of everything, maybe even triple.  I can outfit two other climbers, obviously boot size needs to be similar to me.  But then again, I also have some old school crampons that will work without the welt on the boot.  They are a pain, but hey, they get you up vertical ice.  Between my modern ice tools, and my old school X15s, I can outfit a team.  And many of the climbers that I know that have been at it a while, are in a similar position with their gear.

I know I am not the only one who does not throw out gear.  It just goes in the gear closet forever...

Yep.   I could outfit a conga line of ice climbing history from the past 30 years (plus the actual mountaineering antiques I’ve collected)

When I get old and retire, all that old antique stuff will be worth a fortune and I’ll get all my money back.  Ice climbing is actually a savvy investment opportunity!   lol.  

https://www.steepandcheap.com/singing-rock-bandit-ice-tool?skid=SNG000E-ONECOL-ADZ&ti=UExQIENhdDpJY2UgQ2xpbWJpbmc6MToxOnNhY0NhdDgxMDAwMDEyNQ==

Tools for under $100

They might not be the best but for a TR 2-3 times per year they would work just fine.

Fabien Mwrote:

Do you think the prices of soft and hard goods are justified?

Those that climb ice think so and those that don't, don't. I mean, do skydivers complain about the cost of parachutes, or do they try to get the best ones they can afford? Anyone here skydive? 

Sean Mwrote:

Well the bar has kind of changed. If the purpose of the day was to introduce your friend to ice climbing on a top rope with the lowest $$ possible, it should be acceptable to share tools and even crampons, they really just need boots that fit (can even use most ski boots).

HIS purpose was to top rope for a day, I never said anything about my involvement in his project.
btw he went to an outdoor crag that is artificially covered with ice, you can set up top ropes for the top and apart from knowing how to belay you don't need much to have fun for a day.
Don't know if it is easy to find such structures on your side of the pond but they are getting more and more popular in europe and help a lot to get people started. The one I m talking about is called Anzere ice park. 

Fabien Mwrote:

HIS purpose was to top rope for a day, I never said anything about my involvement in his project.
btw he went to an outdoor crag that is artificially covered with ice, you can set up top ropes for the top and apart from knowing how to belay you don't need much to have fun for a day.
Don't know if it is easy to find such structures on your side of the pond but they are getting more and more popular in europe and help a lot to get people started. The one I m talking about is called Anzere ice park. 

In a previous post you said: 

The ice climbing community as a whole could use some diversity and new faces

But as part of the community it sounds like you are unwilling to help your friend, but want gear manufacturers/shops to donate/sell gear for less? 

Sean Mwrote:

In a previous post you said: 

But as part of the community it sounds like you are unwilling to help your friend, but want gear manufacturers/shops to donate/sell gear for less? 

I never said that... and for the record I helped many people to start ice climbing.
Anyway, I also never said I wanted brands to give or sell for less. this thread is starting to attract trolls as I can see...
I think one of the most solid answer was given at the beginning, joining a club or an university association is a great way to start for cheap if you don't know people able to show you the way. 

On this note I ll lock this thread so to avoid more people putting words in my mouth