Far End Haul System

Doing the Prow in a few days and the top pitches are described as a hauling nightmare. To combat this I will have a Far End Haul System ready to deploy when we have issues.

Please feel free to critique my sketch and let me know if my rigging isn't correct.

Here is what I have come up with:

Looks more time consuming than it needs to be. Any particular reason why you want to use the ratchet? You can just use the haul line itself. The way I’ve done it:

Before you start the climb
1. Attach the mini-trax to your HB. Use a swivel - you’ll be really happy you did on the upper pitches of the Prow. From the top down: mini-trax, locker, swivel, locker, haul bag
2. Haul line goes through the mini-trax so that the weight of the HB is on the mini-trax. Take some of the slack in the haul line from below the mini-trax, tie a back-up knot, and attach it to the swivel with a separate locker. The mini-trax will carry the weight of the HB throughout the climb.

When you need to use the far end hauler
1. Put your Basic ascender on the taut end of the haul line, above the mini-trax. Orient it so it slides up the line.
2. Take the slack end of the haul line (from the other side of the mini-tax), and run it through your pulley.
3. Attach the pulley to the bottom of the Basic with a locker.
4. Slide the basic up the line, pull down on the piece of haul line coming down from the pulley.
5. The haul bag will move up the line.
6. Repeat #4 until you pass the problem sections.

The far-end hauler is totally money on those upper pitches.

Your directions and this picture make sense now.
mountainproject.com/images/…

I think the system I created was meant to be placed anywhere on the haul line rather than at the end next to the bag. This feature isn't necessary so I think your Far End Haul is simpler and does the same thing with less gear.

Thanks for the clarification.

Updated to reflect changes from your description.

randy88fj62 wrote:Doing the Prow in a few days and the top pitches are described as a hauling nightmare. To combat this I will have a Far End Haul System ready to deploy when we have issues. Please feel free to critique my sketch and let me know if my rigging isn't correct. Here is what I have come up with:

Re the Prow. Why haul to the top?
Leave the bags lower down and rap back down.

Yup, essentially that's it.

When you really understand 2:1, you'll find all sorts of advantages to using a Micro-Trax to connect your haul line to the haul bag.

^^ Concur with Mark above.  I use an upside-down hauling device on top of ALL of my loads - whether I'm soloing or not - so I don't have to piss around with that water bottle knot protector thingie.  Yes, my pigs hang a bit lower at the belay anchors, but it's worth it.  No knot = no knot protector. Which is to say, even when climbing with partners, my pigs are already set up for far end hauling if need be.  

What's missing in the sketch above [or perhaps intentionally omitted since the far end haul is set up] - you need to tie a butterfly in the free end of the haul line immediately below the upside-down hauling device, and clip it to a supplemental locker on the top - not bottom! - of the swivel in order to back up the inverted hauling device.  This is particularly important when using a Micro-Trax in this application, since that device is only rated to 2.5 kN a side. 

Pete the micro is rated to 4kn as progress capture device which is how it is being used in the far end hauling application when the bags are just hanging on it.  And I’m pretty sure the 4kn rating is when the rope starts to cut so having a knot below that point won’t really keep the bags from plummeting. That being said a knot is obviously still a good idea!  Breaking strength as a pulley is 7.5kn per side for a total of 15kn and working load as a pulley is 2.5kn per side and a total of 5kn, which should be plenty adequate.

Aren’t most toothed rope grabs rate to 4-6kn?  

And I’ve mentioned this in other threads but I just use a burly prusik instead of the micro.  If I need to far end haul it is easy to just add it when needed as I leave a little loop of slack between the prusik and the knot.  And if you are truly worried about strength the prusik would be a much stronger setup as the prusik will just start to slip and eventually the knot will become loaded.  I also think a prusik is less likely to get snagged on a small roof then a micro.  And it costs just a few bucks so after it gets beaten up hauling I just toss it.

I bet you used that system on the low-angled Father Time, eh? 

Useful discussion re far end hauling, etc.

But re the Prow, did it a few years ago and the last two pitches were hardly a nightmare.  The climber cleaning stays below the bag and frees it when it gets stuck.  End of the last pitch you gotta‘ put in a little elbow grease but, really, no big deal.

And, David Coley, a perfectly fine strategy to leave the bags and then rap.  But, you do miss out on the chance to spend the night on one of the primo bivi summit platforms in the Valley — where you will likely rendezvous with a couple other parties, bust out the weed, and the last of the beers, and make memories to last a lifetime.  And schlepping down North Dome Gully is a right of passage.  I did it at 53- years-old after not being on a wall for 20 years and, c’mon, it wasn’t that bad.

looking at the diagram, is a far end haul just a really long ass 2:1 (ie you have both ends of the rope up at the anchor with the middle of the rope through a micro trax or other pulley down at the bag)?

or, is it that the rope is basically in 1/3's (ie one end is at the upper anchor, the 1/3rd point is through the pulley at the bag, the 2/3 point is up at the anchor - which makes your 2:1, and then the other end of the rope - ie the last 1/3rd, is down at the bag so you can tug on it from that end if it gets stuck.)

thanks, definitely interesting.

Christopher Claywrote:

Useful discussion re far end hauling, etc.

But re the Prow, did it a few years ago and the last two pitches were hardly a nightmare.  The climber cleaning stays below the bag and frees it when it gets stuck.  End of the last pitch you gotta‘ put in a little elbow grease but, really, no big deal.

Far end hauling is generally used when soloing a wall precisely because there is no cleaning climber to stay with the bags while hauling from the anchor. Thus, the no big deal of hauling the upper pitches of the Prow with a partner turn into a very big deal for the unfortunate soloist. 

Fail Fallingwrote:

Far end hauling is generally used when soloing a wall precisely because there is no cleaning climber to stay with the bags while hauling from the anchor. Thus, the no big deal of hauling the upper pitches of the Prow with a partner turn into a very big deal for the unfortunate soloist. 

Thanks for the schoolin‘, Kevin.  Based on the thread author’s tick list I (I’m sure too quickly) jumped to the conclusion that he wasn’t planning on soloing.  And, since, like so many of us, I was focused on telling the story I wanted to tell rather than responding squarely to the question asked, I failed to notice the tension between my response and the question.

But, my points about the partying on the summit and sashaying down NDG are still on solid ground.  ; )

Christopher Claywrote:

Thanks for the schoolin‘, Kevin.  Based on the thread author’s tick list I (I’m sure too quickly) jumped to the conclusion that he wasn’t planning on soloing.  And, since, like so many of us, I was focused on telling the story I wanted to tell rather than responding squarely to the question asked, I failed to notice the tension between my response and the question.

But, my points about the partying on the summit and sashaying down NDG are still on solid ground.  ; )

Nah, upon rereading the Op's original post, you were correct as well.  The OP's use of "we" would seem to indicate that it wouldn't be solo. But using a far end hauler for hauling when you're not soloing is a strange idea so I neglected to look closely at the OP's text since it would never occur to me (or anyone else I know of that bigwalls) to consider a far end hauler for your second when they're helping you haul the bag.

And if one does not sashay down the NDG, can they really claim a proper ascent of Washington Column?

Is is MiniTraxion (or Spoc) the gear de guerre for far end hauling, or is the Roll'n'Lock fine also? I know it doesn't bite well on a heavily loaded line, but with the free side of the haul line slack, I'm not seeing that it would not work? 

Hey Ben,

Pretty much any upside-down hauling device on top of your pig will work.  It definitely works a lot better on top of a swivel, and make sure your backup knot is clipped to the top, not bottom, of the swivel. 

Thanks Pete!

How are you enjoying Hooking Up? 

Christopher Claywrote:

I did it at 53- years-old after not being on a wall for 20 years and, c’mon, it wasn’t that bad.

Nice. I‘m 58 and last did a wall 25 yrs. ago.  I aspire to get back and it’s gratifying to hear other that do.  I get the efficiency of rapping, but I also like to savor the moments that you only get from spending time up there.  

Peter Zabrokwrote:

How are you enjoying Hooking Up? 

Oh it’s fantastic! I’m getting ready for several weeks in Utah coming up this next month, so I’m getting some kit together for Zion and some tower climbs, and my partner and I have been practicing our trickery at an old gym nearby that has inbuilt cracks up the walls — very retro.

Unfortunately there’s a severe lack of second hand haul bags around Calgary, but I think we can make due with a BD Stubby and some careful packing.

I followed your guide on short-loop ties for hooks, you’d be proud!

Yeah if there are two climbers definitely no big deal to free the bags a couple times....folks all the time asking me how bad the hauling on the top of Lurking Fear is, lol, your bags empty and it's pretty easy, actually - do it after linking up from one of the harder aid routes with a full kit and it's still ntb.