Is JTree a free for all dumpster fire?

dirtbags are a symptom of parents not hitting their kids

if you want to drop out of society do it gracefully and accept shame as the town drunk.

don't hide on rock faces. 

JT is a dumpster fire.  Please never come here.

J tree is choss tbh. The good climbing is at spy

Listen to Russ.  That guy KNOWS.

John Badilawrote:

But have you heard about the new extreme camping?  It's in tents.  

Just like the circus fire I heard of. 

Mark Websterwrote:

We road tripped in mountain climbing tents (think Bibler) for 44 years. Raised our kids in those tents on our bi-yearly vacations to Yosemite and Josh. We did not feel the need for a gas hog van to sleep in. Back in the day it was rare to see people in vans. Tents were the norm.

Not really. My parents had a 1973 Chevy van built out for camping. Lots of their friends had VW buses. All those classic 1950s and 1960s vintage trailers were built for a booming market. 

Next-level flex: 

"My parents had a vansion before it was cool"

Andrew Ricewrote:

Not really. My parents had a 1973 Chevy van built out for camping. Lots of their friends had VW buses. All those classic 1950s and 1960s vintage trailers were built for a booming market. 

Well senor, perhaps it was the crowd your parent's ran with? certainly the percentage of people with camping vans has grown considerably in 30 years, especially in the last 10. I knew people with those vans BITD but they weren't used for camping very often. I'd bet they didn't go to a national park and camp illegally out in the open either.

M Mwrote:

Well senor, perhaps it was the crowd your parent's ran with? certainly the percentage of people with camping vans has grown considerably in 30 years, especially in the last 10. I knew people with those vans BITD but they weren't used for camping very often. I'd bet they didn't go to a national park and camp illegally out in the open either.

BITD, most vans that weren't VW's were used to give out free candy... 

Russ Wallingwrote:

BITD, most vans that weren't VW's were used to give out free candy... 

See, you know.

Listen to Russ.  He knows!!!

M Mwrote:

Well senor, perhaps it was the crowd your parent's ran with? certainly the percentage of people with camping vans has grown considerably in 30 years, especially in the last 10. I knew people with those vans BITD but they weren't used for camping very often. I'd bet they didn't go to a national park and camp illegally out in the open either.

I grew up not far from Yosemite. We also backpacked and tent camped. I'm just pointing out that the CLASSIC 1970s VW van is a CAMPER. And there were entire companies devoted to aftermarket van conversions with stoves, fridges, and, yes, beds in back. Sound familiar?  The big difference was that homelessness had yet to be glamorized as "van life" and the truly rich people we knew were mostly going to stay at their ski houses in Tahoe or their beach places in Carmel and Santa Cruz. They wouldn't have dreamed of slumming in a vansion.

Oh, also, camping sites were easier to get because, as noted, there weren't as many people, period, and there weren't as many, percentage-wise, camping. 

Yea I used to wilderness camp in Moab back in the day for free and Indian Creek crowding takes management 

BUT ALSO

hue hue

Damn.

I want to have my pretty cake.

And eat it too.

Shouldn't have told everyone how pretty the cake was. I really didn't want to share just be holier than them.

They scarfed it.

Damn. Gonna have to learn to explore for more cake.

And then I'll laugh at the newbies and their hawt partners eating all my old cake. Its only a little stale, sometimes.

Alone at new cake spot. Shit, can't win. Pretty spot, but lonely.

Sing the body electric.

Social Media and the hash tag van life movement has popularized public lands.  Overcrowding has become the norm.  The NPS and BLM have failed to meet these growing needs and are decades behind on proper land management.  As such, they have implemented complex reservation systems and lotterys for entry and campsites.  Most of these new rules make visitations difficult for spontaneous trips, locals, and climbers that need to start early or leave late.  As such, it's becoming a free for all for every empty parking space and lot near our park systems.  Sides of the road near places like Red Rocks look like campgrounds with people publicly urinating and defecating.  Already local homeowners are starting to complain.  This is only going to lead to more regulation.  The entire park system experience needs to be rethought.

Reese Stanleywrote:

If they aren't breaking the law, or park/local rules, what's the issue?  Everyone has an equal right to climb, it shouldn't matter what they pull up to the crag in as long as they're following the rules like everyone else.  The only way this is could be seen as "terrible for climbing" is in the sense that overcrowding/access is being threatened due to the heightened popularity of climbing but, that has little to nothing to do with how/what people sleep in.  Vans, RVs and roof tents are not new.  Was Chris Sharma contributing to climbing becoming "terrible" in his RV while they filmed Rampage?  I don't think so.

This post boils down to "people who have the means to afford nicer accommodations while camping are somehow entitled and contributing to making climbing terrible", which is just as bad as saying "people who do not have the means to afford nice accommodations while camping are entitled and contributing to making climbing terrible".  Neither statement is true nor helpful.  Everyone should have the same access and nobody should be given preferential treatment.  Everyone should be punished for breaking the rules/laws, whether they're in a tent or a van.  Camping illegally in an obvious pull out is bad practice regardless of the method, is what I'm getting at.  

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you're saying (and I apologize if I am) but, I'm struggling to see another way to view this post.

Except they are violating park rules, unless they're backcountry camping (which doesnt involve vehicles) or are in a campsite. There's free BLM camping 20 minutes from the west entrance of the park if folks don't wanna pay to camp or can't get a site. This is a national park and an incredible climbing resource. I'd hate to see the park service crack down because some folks don't wanna deal with the hassle of driving a handful of minutes.

That said, if people wanna stay in their cars, vans, whatever, I'm all for it, I lived that life for almost a year and it's absolutely lovely and worth it. Just do it better and with respect for those around you (the royal you, not an attack on you personally)

Unrelated, yes, during peak times Jtree is a shitshow. People jumping the berms to park in the desert, bringing their dogs far beyond where they're permitted (respect the wildlife, geez), trash strewn about, all kinds of shenanigans. I'd say overall, or by a large percentage, climbers aren't the problem. Had a woman walk up and grab the live side of a toprope and try to pose like she was holding my climber up and had the audacity to get bent when I firmly told her to get her hands off my rope. Things get nuts out here sometimes 

Justa Murphywrote:

Except they are violating park rules, unless they're backcountry camping (which doesnt involve vehicles) or are in a campsite. There's free BLM camping 20 minutes from the west entrance of the park if folks don't wanna pay to camp or can't get a site. This is a national park and an incredible climbing resource. I'd hate to see the park service crack down because some folks don't wanna deal with the hassle of driving a handful of minutes.

I don't think you or the OP ever established that the people in the original photo of the Subaru with their tent open were "violating park rules." There's definitely no rule in JTNP about popping open your RTT in a day-use area or any other legal parking spot to have a nice stretch and or even a nap during the day. "Camping" means spending the night, overnight, in the park. And is limited to legal campsites or back country areas. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

I don't think you or the OP every established that the people in the original photo of the Subaru with their tent open were "violating park rules." There's definitely no rule in JTNP about popping open your RTT in a day-use area or any other legal parking spot to have a nice stretch and or even a nap during the day. "Camping" means spending the night, overnight, in the park. And is limited to legal campsites or back country areas. 

I'm no Sherlock Holmes but I can tell that picture was taken early in the morning.