New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #18

Randywrote:

A pandemic changes the calculus on the intersection between person choice and the rights and safety of the population as a whole. A personal choice is not really just that. It affects our families and everyone with whom we come in contact - and those they interact with.  Look how fast these things spread.

I read a succinct counter; one's freedom not to get vax'ed can possibly impedes another's freedom from being admitted to the hospital, intubated, or die.  Whose freedom wins?

Fucking vaccination/anti vaccination discussions are fucking boring for fuck's sake.

There. I said it.   

Well said Lori. It is personal and I am exhausted. Add to that the consideration every time we go out climbing, cycling, whatever, that if we have any kind of accident and need medical care, it might not be there for us, at least not like it used to be. Our hospitals are full. Our health care workers are stressed and burned out. And this is in a state with a relatively high vaccination rate.

 I don’t know what the situation is in Australia, and yes, we are tired of talking about it and it probably is boring, but it is also having a huge impact on pretty much every single aspect of our lives.

Edit - Lori, you deleted your post! :(

I don't know what it is like today but a few days ago there were only 10 ICU beds available in our entire state. 76% of the occupied beds are unvaccinated paitents.  This is in a state with over 80% vaccinated rate. This pandemic is absolutly being fueled by anti vaxers and they can go pound fckn sand INMOP. 

"I was really hoping that we'd (all) get vaccinated and things would be back to normal," said Sefton, an assistant manager at Sparrow Hospital in Lansing, Michigan.

But this week Michigan had more patients hospitalized for Covid-19 than ever before. Covid-19 hospitalizations jumped 88% in the past month, according to the Michigan Health & Hospital Association.

"We have more patients than we've ever had at any point, and we're seeing more people die at a rate we've never seen die before," said Jim Dover, president and CEO of Sparrow Health System.

"Since January, we've had about 289 deaths; 75% are unvaccinated people," Dover said. "And the very few (vaccinated people) who passed away all were more than 6 months out from their shot. So we've not had a single person who has had a booster shot die from Covid."

Among the new Covid-19 victims, Sefton said she's noticed a disturbing trend.

"We're seeing a lot of younger people. And I think that is a bit challenging," said Sefton, a 20-year nursing veteran.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I don't know what it is like today but a few days ago there were only 10 ICU beds available in our entire state. 76% of the occupied beds are unvaccinated paitents.  This is in a state with over 80% vaccinated rate. This pandemic is absolutly being fueled by anti vaxers and they can go pound fckn sand INMOP. 

People all over are in need of those beds too. EMTs are hard to find these days and the anti vaxxers have played a huge role in that as well, after all who wants to walk into a house full of covid just to rescue some dumbass who calls it the "China virus" and still swears its like the common cold even though someone called 911... All I ask of the antis who all know better is to self diagnose, self medicate and stay home next time a medical emergency comes up. Hospitals should play the freedom card right back on these folks, freedom to not admit them. Rant over

ErikaNWwrote:

Well said Lori. It is personal and I am exhausted. Add to that the consideration every time we go out climbing, cycling, whatever, that if we have any kind of accident and need medical care, it might not be there for us, at least not like it used to be. Our hospitals are full. Our health care workers are stressed and burned out. And this is in a state with a relatively high vaccination rate.

 I don’t know what the situation is in Australia, and yes, we are tired of talking about it and it probably is boring, but it is also having a huge impact on pretty much every single aspect of our lives.

Edit - Lori, you deleted your post! :(

Well, ok, then.  
We are all in a tough spot here, trying to figure out how to navigate this among friends.  Even here on MP we are trying to stay out of the fracas, but maybe we can't do that.  I'll repost.  

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Carl, I totally agree with you... it IS boring, right up until it becomes personal.  I think what we are really trying to work through here is how to live with one another while we have opposing beliefs and those beliefs may cause personal harm.  

I have gone to church every Sunday of my adult life, and for many years daily for an early morning half-hour service.  During the COVID shutdown last year my church required masks, but as soon as the mask mandate was lifted here in San Bernardino County my church also made it 'optional'.  So, I walked into church last week, to a packed 200+ people, sitting shoulder to shoulder in an enclosed room, and I counted a total of 4 masked people.  I already know that our area has 36% vaccination rate.  So... I stood at the back of the room, trying to decide whether to roll the dice and go on in and take a seat.  The most empty pew still had 6 unmasked people sitting there, and also numerous children scrambling about.  I was doing a lot of head math...  if I sit there for one hour, I'll be in a petri dish room full of unvaccinated and unmasked people odds are strong that someone here has COVID.  I know my 3 vaccinations confer some kind of protection... but they are certainly no get-out-of-jail free card.  I also added to my mental calculation...  I'm 68, I have Type1 Diabetes, and I also have a recovering partner at  home who really cannot get sick right now.  I even factor in the current state of our hospital ERs, whether I could get help if COVID struck.  I decided to go for it... basically just step into the Super Spreader event and pray.   This Sunday, I won't go.  I'm pretty disillusioned with the whole thing. 

I'll add to this that I registered a polite complaint with our rectory, and the lovely lady there said she completely understood, they are 'trying to find a solution', but meanwhile I was free to sit in the small adjoining chapel.  So, I checked that out... and it was full of unmasked people, too.  So, CLEARLY we are not taking this seriously.  

And I'm PISSED.  

I feel sarcastic about this, too.  'I guess Church is a Covid-free zone!"  I guess spiritual people don't get sick.  

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We will all be exposed at some point.  Will that exposure result in a mild, moderate or lethal illness... whoopee!! We get to bet the odds today.

I also have to consider that I might drag a harsh illness back to Tony.  Or he to me.  

So now it's personal.  

Finally... our hospitals have all invested in iPads with Facetime, so that when you are admitted, and are there alone (as my son-in-laws dad was recently, as he lay dying and family members not allowed even to visit)... your family can wave goodbye to you on an iPad.  So, I fixed that part at least... I keep mine charged and on the ready.   

It really sucks being in the workplace..  Two choices.  work with ignorant people who don't give a shit or don't work...  Forman came to work really sick unmasked last week so now I am out of work for a week sick and i passed it to Isa. I have two negative tests this week and isa is negative but it still sucks.  

I'm super lucky that I have nearly zero vax refusers in my daily life (including work!). However, when you grasp the collective problem of herd immunity, it seems truly incomprehensible that anyone would have that position. A few years ago, I read this book: American Character: A History of the Epic Struggle Between Personal Liberty and the Common Good. This book is a masterpiece, and really illuminates the who and why of the other side of the argument, with minimal judgement. Even here, among those of us who are unequivocal about getting immunized, there's a recognition that personal liberty is a valid part of the calculus. And a side note to Carl, if you find Americans incomprehensible, this book reveals a lot.

Lori, I don't think it's that people don't take this seriously. Yeah, the people who don't believe in it are still out there.

But now? Those who did, or do?

There are a lot of people like me, who are simply tired....and done. Just....done.

I've gotten vaccinated, got a booster shot, and that's that. I'm not out all that much, anyway, so I'm good.. or I'm not. I wear a mask when required (that's not many places), but otherwise, no. People making individual choices, weighing risk/benefit.

Or not so much.

Fatalistic, but it's what I can manage, now. 

Besides, I'm guessing Idaho's gotta be running out of people to infect, by now. 

This is the process, the sorting how to live with this, longterm. 

This being the U.S., people will do whatever they wanna do, anyway, we are a largely ungovernable people by nature, after all. Most of us go along with the rules, more or less, most of the time.

But when we don't....

Well. "Interesting times" ensue.

Best, Helen

Victor Kwrote:

 A few years ago, I read this book: American Character: A History of the Epic Struggle Between Personal Liberty and the Common Good. This book is a masterpiece, and really illuminates the who and why of the other side of the argument, with minimal judgement. 

I have to get and read this book!  Does it mention or deal with "American Exceptionalism"?

ErikaNWwrote:

Well said Lori. It is personal and I am exhausted. 

For my family and I, it got personal very early.  March 6, 2020, in fact.  That day, my wife saw a patient who attended the now infamous Biogen Conference in Boston late Feb.  COVID was barely a blip on our radar then but my wife knew well enough to dorn full PPE before entering the exam room.  That was a good thing because his results came back postive on Mar 11.  This guy was mingling with Patient Zero paractically.  That evening, I came back from the rock gym and she said "you better sit down and maybe have a drink before I tell you something".   She fought hard to get tested ASAP, and on Mar 16, in the evening, we got her results; NEGATIVE.  What a reflief.  And the rest, as the saying fgoes, is hstory.

And, yes, we are exhausted but prop each other up.  Life goes on but our guard is still up, even after recent boosters.

I can’t stop thinking about flimflam man and wondering what it would feel like to just step up onto that rock, grab a hold of either side and work on up.  Something about that face reminds me of Dog Day Afternoon. I learned so much watching Bob hook a casual left heel around the plate at the start of DDA and just walk on up where I was scrambling to barely get a foothold. You guys! It’s a total mystery how you do what you do.

 

Tony is home and kind of… perkier.  Happier. Huge incision up his back and two tubes dangling from his sides yet he just seems so sun shiny.  It just makes me wonder if pain was coloring everything for him. I have not known this Tony before.  

Todd, beautiful!  I’m no expert but I’m learning to appreciate what I see.  You put so much heart into your bouldering and you look strong and graceful.  

I bumped into this clip this morning and thought of you.

(I wonder if Ron also bouldered…)

Ron Kauk, legend.  FFA of Astroman also.  I read somewhere he named Midnight Ligthning and Astroman after Hendrix's songs ...
Sounds like one heck of climber and character.

American Exceptionalism? Do Americans really do this?  If so why?

I have a forced family wedding in Rhode Island, where I grew up.  Hooked up with the guy who I first went climbing with when I was 15, he was 21, the Mighty Droid. Turns out there are now sport climbs in RI.  We did 7 climbs, mostly easy but what the heck.  All of 40 feet tall but a great time. The dude is 67 and doesn't climb often, but took multiple lead whippers on a 5.9.  God bless him, my mentor. Still not afraid.

I got antsy from being home sick all week.   I have two negative  tests and no fever this morning but still dragging  pretty good. Its been wintery all week and tomorrow is supposed to be sucky rain so I just had to  feed the rat.  Put together a soloing pack. 4 screws, harness, V thread tool a few slings and a 60m 6mm tag.  All that extra stuff is because Ice is a fickel beast. sometimes you get up there and the ice starts makeing really bad noises and its time to bail . I have also broken enough crampons and ice tools over the years to know that soloing without a plan B on ice is a fools game.  Anyways I got dressed up, climbed in the truck and drove 2hrs to Stowe VT. strapped on the skis and left the parking lot at the crack of 2pm. skied about 2 miles up and over the notch to a nice two pitch waterfall that is pretty close to the road. Many of the climbs up there have beastly approaches after you do your 2 mile ski.   P 1 had some really cool mushrooms on it and felt a bit steeper than normal.

The crux is on P2. this little pillar is short but steeper and longer  than it looks and really tricky at the top. The wall on the right pushes you off the ice onto a rock slab  on the left that is just out of sight. It is a bit of a steep technical move to transition around the corner. 135ft of air under your butt when you do the move :) 

Isa in the same spot last Sunday

 anyways it was a hoot but being sick I got pretty winded and to stop several times to catch my breath. This climb is usually a warm up or a warm down for me but  with my poor health it left me  a bit tuckered.  It was a walk off so I got to carry the rope around just for training ;)   A quick ski back to the top of the notch and then the nice long downhill run back to the truck. 2hrs ctc never even had to turn on the headlamp..   99.2f when I got to the truck .  Tuckered but not too bad. Hopefully this will kick that bug right out!

Ward. its always really cool to hook up with someone like that!  I wish I could find Charlie Gray. I did my 1st western road trip with him in 86. 

Todd Berlier wrote:

im jonesing too Nick. i have been contemplating buying a tarp to keep the snow off my latest fa project that is going to get about 5 feet of snow on it starting sunday. 

Shovel the top off to make a landing, we do that on highballs here every winter.  We've done 30 foot V5s with a snow landing...after TR rehearsal. 

Lori Milaswrote:

 

Tony has IMPECCABLE hair! 

Todd Berlier wrote:

for me it happened in april. 

i was doing a pr deal with a make a wish foundation recipient. 17 (i think) with cancer who just had gotten a puppy thru the foundation. i was to be the veterinarian talking to him about preventative care, training, etc. he had just come from chemo but was in good spirits but looked under the weather. i wore gloves and masked and sat 6 feet away and we chatted. a good natured/positive kid that was eager to learn. two days later the grandmother called to say he tested positive that morning from his hospital visit. my wife took herself and the kids to her mother's for 10 days. i never had symptons. grandmother called 2 weeks after the visit to let us know he died. we didnt ask if it was covid or cancer. 

when the vaccine became available to people in my field i got it immediately as did my wife and our kids as soon as they could. we thought it was a momentous time when our kids got their second shots and we were both boosted. 

ill get my annual covid booster alongside my annual flu booster happily knowing i am doing what i can for the good of the people around me and everyone they come in contact with and everyone they come in contact with, etc. 

on a lighter note: this is an fa from summer 2020 that i am still super psyched on: great movement, hold and rock. the angle is deceiving on purpose as the ground drops away a few feet behind the rock in the foreground. on purpose so my wife doesnt know how high it is :) also my daughter found this boulder on google maps. i named it after a line in a rise against song that is about life after a societal collapse:

he looked at the fields and then his hands

all i need is what i have

and fell a tear of happiness

she watched the world crumble away, "is this the end of yesterday?"

"lord i hope so is all he'd say."

all gone are the old guard

gone, gone are the cold, cold wars

weightless we go forth

on wings of amnesty

eta: all the green trees in the far background are black now as a result of the Caldor fire.

Cool movement and cool post Todd...