Is this the future of climbing?

Gumby Kingwrote:

I used to climb at Orange Oswald at Summersville Lake.  That wall and the small area do get really crowded though, I don't think I've ever seen it this bad.  My guess is the AF staged it... In the winters when the lake is drained you have a lot more room to spread

A lot of college kids go to this spot in large groups because the sport climbing is great AND you can swim between burns. So AF, if people concentrate in one small area it SAVEs impact for other areas. Don't you know anything about LNT?
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Edit: I read the email... the photo was definitely click bait and the content wasn't really tied to the photo.  Still want to call the AF out for this one...  activist..  smh

I have definitely been there on days that it’s been this bad. Spring break and other breaks from local universities always draw these crowds as well as occasional weekends. Staged or not it can be this bad, if not worse at orange oswald.

Y’all are so funny with how much hate you’re throwing at AF (even though some of you have that little icon thingy next to your name, indicating you give them your money)…do you even understand how much they do for climbing areas, not only in terms of hardware donated for anchors, but also for keeping areas open to climbing? SMH

Glad to see climbing helmets being used as intended...

Let people go to the busy easy crags, who cares. Just go do your own thing, it doesn't affect you. 

I do think the AF should focus on funding access though.

Require 10 feet min between bolts and the crowds will thin.

I received the email today too, what a mixed message. 

Send us your money so we can partner with Black diamond in increasing access for more climbers...

So the solution is more, bigger and corporate? 

No.

I agree with providing better education for climbers to become better stewards, and projects to improve crag conditions, but the problem advertised is simply from overpopulation. The crowding will not be solved by more access. It will continue to get worse. The real solution which isn't going to happen is for people to stop having so many babies.

Limitation and restriction of access to control numbers will be the way of the future.

mountainhickwrote:

The crowding will not be solved by more access. It will continue to get worse. The real solution which isn't going to happen is for people to stop having so many babies.

Limitation and restriction of access to control numbers will be the way of the future.

So I take it you won't be going to the crag anymore? That's very generous of you :) 

Looks like a beach on a nice weekend, except that people are spread out more. Are land managers closing down beaches these days?

Connor Dobsonwrote:

So I take it you won't be going to the crag anymore? That's very generous of you :) 

You are quite welcome. 

For quite a few years I have avoided and walked away from crags with scenes like that photo.  So on that count, yes, you are correct. I often choose not to go to those kinds of crag settings

Now I can't climb for other reasons, but I would still seek the freedom of the hills if I could (a fine conundrum in the modern climbing world). 

Connor Dobsonwrote:

Let people go to the busy easy crags, who cares. Just go do your own thing, it doesn't affect you. 

I do think the AF should focus on funding access though.

It does when they get them shut down like Roadside Crag at the Red lol

How is the AF going to fund access unless you pay them, anyways   

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

It does when they get them shut down like Roadside Crag at the Red lol

How is the AF going to fund access unless you pay them, anyways   

I do donate to them every year. I just wish they would use that money for purchasing easements and other things.

Connor Dobsonwrote:

I do donate to them every year. I just wish they would use that money for purchasing easements and other things.

Why would you give them money if they are not doing what you want them to do with it?

Couple solutions come to mind: 1) walk very far then climb. 2) climb harder  

With the whole Calico Basin capitulation, I'm starting to question whether I should not renew my AF membership and increase my support of LCO's instead.

Not the future of climbing, but climbing as it presently is. The future will probably see those walls in the picture quiet and empty. Too many people pouring out of the gyms, completely unqualified to safely and intelligently climb outdoors. Skyrocketing injuries and skyrocketing rescue costs to taxpayers makes it easy to see where this is headed. Call my prediction ' The Big Ban Theory'.

My question is what's up with this guys knees?

Go Back to Super Topowrote:

To me listing crags with access issues would do no good. Maybe listing crags they have saved/helped from having access issues would have been a better route?

That would be fine as well.

 Regardless I think posing these questions with the allusion that they will help alleviate further issues is a valid one. The AF has solved far more access issues than they have created in my experience. The amount of crags they have purchased in numerous areas is quite extensive if I recall.

Historically yes, but recently my skepticism is higher. At somepoint often these charity organizations morph into something else like the NRA or Susan B Koman. This is a way way way more compelling reason to support the Access Fund. I feel fine tossing them some money for 2022. At the same time we can still be critical of their marketing.

As far as your last point, I think the AF does a tremendous job supporting development of new climbs and new areas…a lot of there money goes to new bolts, anchors, climbing coalitions, etc….so by donating you would be in fact contributing to the very solution you deem as being potentially successful. 

Then shouldn't their marketing material include this information?

F r i t zwrote:

With the whole Calico Basin capitulation, I'm starting to question whether I should not renew my AF membership and increase my support of LCO's instead.

My thoughts are similarly aligned in that regard.  Would rather my money go to Friends of Jtree or Yosemite Climbing Association.

But AF makes some sweet shirts... and the AF really helped Lover Leap, CA.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

That would be fine as well.

Historically yes, but recently my skepticism is higher. At somepoint often these charity organizations morph into something else like the NRA or Susan B Koman. This is a way way way more compelling reason to support the Access Fund. I feel fine tossing them some money for 2022. At the same time we can still be critical of their marketing.

Then shouldn't their marketing material include this information?

I completely agree with being critical of their marketing. I think that is in large part why there’s so much shade being thrown there way. May I ask why you are more skeptical recently though?

I may also add that they are in no way a “charity” And I don’t think they’ve ever marketed themselves as such (I could be wrong though as far as them marketing themselves as that). 

I’m not a marketing major or in the industry, however, we are discussing this topic based on a photo their marketing team put out there…which should be considered a success to some degree. That information is now out there because of that email/photo.…but yes, for many having that material included could help. 

I understand skepticism to a certain level but I have personally seen the tremendous amount of hardware donated by the AF be put to amazing use, preventing potential disasters, all over larger out west and in southeastern crags. I have also reaped the benefits of climbing on land that was secured with help and support of the AF throughout the US. 

My guess is that a lot of people criticizing the AF either don’t realize many of the bolts, anchors, and land they climb on were purchased in large part by the support of the AF. That or they simply deem these things as unnecessary. Either way, I think the AF does far more to increase access to climbing than to deter it. To each their own I suppose. 

King Catwrote:

Why would you give them money if they are not doing what you want them to do with it?

Because they have funded things in the past that I agree with. Turns out everything isn't black and white?