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Where do I buy, what to do?
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I've been developing a low traffic sport area since the early 90's. Recently we started to add lowering carabiners to the chains as a courtesy and for convenience and they have been getting stolen. I want to replace some of the chains with the hook contraption pictured below or to add Mussy hooks to the chains. The only place I can find Mussy's is out of stock and I cannot find any of the pictured hooks below. I'm also looking for affordable steel carabiners. I am not willing to spend the exorbitant amount that I am seeing online on steel carabiners. In the meantime I think that I have come up with a solution. There is very little traffic at this area and it would take a very long time for an aluminum carabiner to wear out if I used them on the less popular routes. What do you think?   |
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Look at rigging websites. https://www.uscargocontrol.com/products/galvanized-carbon-eye-hoist-hook-w-latch-1-ton Most require buying a decent number, but are cheaper than climbing stuff. |
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As long as its dry and you can clean up the frays at the end of the wire then its probably fine as a temporary solution imo |
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I'll use safety wire for biners at the end of chain. It seems to stop people from taking them. Instead of Mussys, I've started to use these: and/or: amazon.com/gp/product/B000L…;psc=1 |
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Just use quick links. If it’s a lightly traveled area I leave the quick link screw gate finger tight so when I get to the anchor I tether in with my sling or PAS if that’s yer bag and unscrew the quick link, drop the rope in screw them down finger tight, yell take, un tether and yell lower. Quick and easy. 2000 lb quick links are like 3-4 bucks and easy to replace. |
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https://shop.climbonsquamish.com/climb-tech-steel-carabiner-with-captive-pine.html |
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Fantastic advice and links here! Those captive eye carabiners look pretty slick! But would they last longer than the aluminum wire gates that I have in my pic? They are about the same price as the galvanized Mussy hooks David linked to above. The hooks seem like they would last longer. You have to include a $1.25 quick link. So we are looking at about (rounding up for shipping) $4.50 (Mussy or Captive Eye) + $1.25 (quicklink) = $5.75 x 2 = $11.50 per anchor $13.00 Captive Pin Steel Carab x 2 = $26 I can get a quickdraw at pro deal for $8 so that would be $4 per carabiner (throw the dog bone in the trash). My wire crimp doo hicky is about $.25 cents for a total of $8.50 per anchor. Downside is that is an aluminum carabiner that would wear out fast but don't forget that this place is a very low traffic climbing area. I think they would last quite a while. Kevin, I would love to leave just quick links and up till now I just left the chains bare but they seem to fill with sand and whatnot and get welded shut after a while. People over tighten them as well. The bonus on Mussy/Captive Eye is that I don't have mess with making the anti theft crimp wire.
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Kyran Keislingwrote: If you look at longevity, steel is going to last much much longer thus saving money in the long run. I really like the climb tech mussy hooks if you can find them, suppose to be back in stock at the end of December. |
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Also worth reaching out to the ASCA for mussy hooks. They buy them up, that’s why they are out of stock. |
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Yeah, I think I'm leaning towards the hooks. But if you look at my math, I could buy two wiregate aluminum carabs for roughly the same price as one of the Mussy Hooks. I think that one aluminum carab would last at least 5 years on most of the routes. I would guess that the average route at this area sees less than 20 accents a year. The hoist hooks that PatMas linked to in the first comment on this post are attractive. I have read that the clips aren't as reliable as a Mussy but jeez, I can't see how you could break those? If I bought them in bulk it wouldn't be a big deal to replace them if they malfunction. Total respect for the ASCA but I prefer to be on my own and I think their efforts are better suited to high traffic areas in need of restoration. |
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As a climber, and depending on the particulars of the rock, I still prefer open shuts. I know people have shit fits about them, but that's what I like at the top of certain routes. Drop the rope in, take, lower. Next guy leads. And since you've brought up cost, you can't get any cheaper. 1/2" shuts are like a buck a piece. As far as just quick links go on top, I've done lots of those but I tighten them up. Lead climber doesn't have to untie to thread rope. Just take a bite, thread the bite through links, tie figure 8 or overhand on the bite, clip knot into belay loop with locker or 2 biners gates opposed etc., untie from end of rope, pull tail through quick links, take, lower. |
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What does a bite of rope taste like? Chicken? |
David Carrerawrote: The only positive thing about shuts are convenience like you mentioned, just drop the rope in and lower but that’s it. I don’t think they are super dangerous but they do twist the hell out of your rope because they have to be spaced or should be space at least 10” apart. I prefer a euro style vertically stacked or slightly off set anchor and you can’t do that with shuts. I’m starting to do that on my routes now, ropes pull easy and minimal twisting. |
FrankPSwrote: It tastes like the late 80’s if you are using open shuts. |
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If you are going to go through all the trouble of replacing lower offs, get something steel (stainless 316 heavily recommended) with a captive pin or eye. I've heard good things about the ones in my link above. Mussys are nice but for low traffic areas they are a bit heavy and are not desirable if near seepage or are often wet. |
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We have ‘fixed’ aluminum carabiners carabiners on most of the anchors at our sport climbing areas. It works fine and on Mountain Project we just say to replace them if they’re getting worn. They don’t get stolen that much and we don’t have any captive device keeping them on. If it’s a new area maybe they will go missing more at first though. |
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 Shawn S - I like those captive eyes, but does the fact that it's stainless make it more durable or just more resistant to water? This area is super, super arid. The Hoist Hooks are the same price and look thick and durable. Heavy, yes, but who cares about weight really, on very moderate sport route chains? Bryan - We have had a huge problem with theft at the area. I was a bit proud of my little crimpy wire thingy idea in my first pic. Its basically the same idea as the captive pin for a fraction of the price. And I like the idea of....I know it's aluminum but if it's wearing out and you don't want to untie, then you replace it! I'm getting old these days. :-) |
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Pigtails are the open shuts for the 2020s... |
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Let me ask this one once again because I am genuinely interest. Is a stainless anchor more durable than an aluminum one or is the stainless anchor just more resistant to water damage? |
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Steel is more durable than aluminum. However, I really like your cable idea and think it would work well at a low traffic area. I have seen aluminum lowering biners made captive using zip ties or wrapped wire. Not foolproof but discourages the unprepared thief. |
Kyran Keislingwrote: Stainless steel and steel in general is significantly more abrasion resistant than aluminum. Edelrid makes aluminum carabiners with a steel insert at the wear point. They are branded “bulletproof” and they show much less rope wear when you use them as a top rope anchor or to belay. |
