overheard at the crag: post it

James C wrote:

OT: Seriously recommend this movie if you like indie films, modern culture commentary. I watched it after seeing this post and finding out the scene was filmed in Index, and loved the whole thing.

One of Viggo's best performances... growing up homeschooled in WA I can tell you it is entirely factually accurate

JC D wrote:

Snozzberry

The judges have accepted your answer!

M Rox wrote:

Not overheard, but overseen I guess:

I was belaying up on a ledge about 12' above the trail. My pack was leaned against a rock off trail. I look down and see a woman sitting on the rock cutting up vegetables (bell pepper and avocado) directly on my pack to make a sandwich. Weird, gross, and super fucking rude. Don't chop up food on other people's gear.

This has to be only half the story…

I mean, someone does that shit on my pack and I’m definitely gettin me some avocado. 

" ... and that's the awesome thing about having your own YouTube channel!"

At City of Rocks.

My buddy and I walk up to Wheat Thin, rack up, I'll lead, he'll follow.

As we begin to rack up, person to our left is on Rye Crisp about five feet off the ground, being belayed from above, in tears, yelling up to their belayer, "I don't want to do this! I don't want to do this!" Belayer yells down "encouragement."

I lead Wheat Thin, build an anchor, bring my buddy up, just as he tops out the person on TR on Rye Crisp tops out.

The Rye Crisp belayer to the TRer: "Awesome job! Your first trad. route!" 

TRer, in tears: "I hate this!"

Belayer: "Ohhh, you're fine ... now lets learn how to rappel!"

My buddy and I walk off and around back to our packs ... in that time the crying person has rappelled about halfway down Rye Crisp ... still in tears.

No less than 20 people watched this.

Felt so bad for this person. 

My moral of the story: The line between "encouragement" and being an asshole might not be as thin as you think.

M Rox wrote: Don't chop up food on other people's gear.

Let me guess…Vantage?  Had other climbers move our packs before and one dude even sat on it.  At least a Craig dog didn’t visit.  Lol.   Why I try to stay on the east side.  

Jason Mills wrote:

At City of Rocks.

My buddy and I walk up to Wheat Thin, rack up, I'll lead, he'll follow.

Person to our left is on Rye Crisp, being belayed from above, is about five feet off the ground, in tears, yelling up to their belayer, "I don't want to do this! I don't want to do this!" Belayer yells down "encouragement."

I lead Wheat Thin, build an anchor, bring my buddy up, just as he tops out the person on TR on Rye Crisp tops out.

The Rye Crisp belayer to the TRer: "Awesome job! Your first trad. route!" 

TRer, in tears: "I hate this!"

Belayer: "Ohhh, you're fine ... now lets learn how to rappel!"

My buddy and I walk off and around back to our packs ... in that time the crying person has rappelled about halfway down Rye Crisp ... still in tears.

No less than 20 people watched this.

Felt so bad for this person. 

Moral of the story: The line between "encouragement" and being an asshole might not be as thin as you think.

Few climbing scenarios make me as angry as this.  I have actually walked up to a climber in a similar situation and told him he was a being a complete asshole and he would do better actually listening to and having some respect for what his partner was saying.  The other party involved (who was crying)  looked like they appreciated my speaking up on their behalf.  Maybe because I'm a woman I can get away with something like this without getting punched in the face.

Jason Mills wrote:

At City of Rocks.

My buddy and I walk up to Wheat Thin, rack up, I'll lead, he'll follow.

Person to our left is on Rye Crisp, being belayed from above, is about five feet off the ground, in tears, yelling up to their belayer, "I don't want to do this! I don't want to do this!" Belayer yells down "encouragement."

I lead Wheat Thin, build an anchor, bring my buddy up, just as he tops out the person on TR on Rye Crisp tops out.

The Rye Crisp belayer to the TRer: "Awesome job! Your first trad. route!" 

TRer, in tears: "I hate this!"

Belayer: "Ohhh, you're fine ... now lets learn how to rappel!"

My buddy and I walk off and around back to our packs ... in that time the crying person has rappelled about halfway down Rye Crisp ... still in tears.

No less than 20 people watched this.

Felt so bad for this person. 

Moral of the story: The line between "encouragement" and being an asshole might not be as thin as you think.

Ah whatever , it was probably the best day of that person's life... in retrospect. 

"It's OK to top rope through the hooks, I paid my $30 to the BCC this year." Canal Zone, Clear Creek Canyon 

Ira OMC wrote:

Ah whatever , it was probably the best day of that person's life... in retrospect. 

Nope.  Total bullshit thinking and philosophy. 

Jason Mills wrote:

At City of Rocks.

My buddy and I walk up to Wheat Thin, rack up, I'll lead, he'll follow.

As we begin to rack up, person to our left is on Rye Crisp about five feet off the ground, being belayed from above, in tears, yelling up to their belayer, "I don't want to do this! I don't want to do this!" Belayer yells down "encouragement."

I lead Wheat Thin, build an anchor, bring my buddy up, just as he tops out the person on TR on Rye Crisp tops out.

The Rye Crisp belayer to the TRer: "Awesome job! Your first trad. route!" 

TRer, in tears: "I hate this!"

Belayer: "Ohhh, you're fine ... now lets learn how to rappel!"

My buddy and I walk off and around back to our packs ... in that time the crying person has rappelled about halfway down Rye Crisp ... still in tears.

No less than 20 people watched this.

Felt so bad for this person. 

Moral of the story: The line between "encouragement" and being an asshole might not be as thin as you think.

…but not bad enough to be friendly and helpful to them? “Hey, sounds like you’re not excited to try rappelling today. There’s a trail over here, you can walk back down instead, my friend and I are going this way you’re welcome to join.”

I feel like people would be much more likely to try to help someone crying alone, but somehow if someone is there making them cry it’s “not our business” like that person has some kind of ownership over the other and we have no right to talk to them like a human. It feels especially true when it’s a couple (or perceived couple.) Is there anything more lonely than feeling like you’re in a crisis and being surrounded by people who just awkwardly turn away?

Person A doesn’t own person B. You can talk to person B and offer them a better deal human-interaction wise. 

Ira OMC wrote:

Ah whatever , it was probably the best day of that person's life... in retrospect. 

Easily the dumbest take of this thread. 

Jason Mills wrote:

At City of Rocks.

My buddy and I walk up to Wheat Thin, rack up, I'll lead, he'll follow.

As we begin to rack up, person to our left is on Rye Crisp about five feet off the ground, being belayed from above, in tears, yelling up to their belayer, "I don't want to do this! I don't want to do this!" Belayer yells down "encouragement."

I lead Wheat Thin, build an anchor, bring my buddy up, just as he tops out the person on TR on Rye Crisp tops out.

The Rye Crisp belayer to the TRer: "Awesome job! Your first trad. route!" 

TRer, in tears: "I hate this!"

Belayer: "Ohhh, you're fine ... now lets learn how to rappel!"

My buddy and I walk off and around back to our packs ... in that time the crying person has rappelled about halfway down Rye Crisp ... still in tears.

No less than 20 people watched this.

Felt so bad for this person. 

Moral of the story: The line between "encouragement" and being an asshole might not be as thin as you think.

Some people just aren't cut out to be climbers. I'm sure the "asshole" had good intentions of helping this person get over their fears.

Bill W wrote:

Some people just aren't cut out to be climbers. I'm sure the "asshole" had good intentions of helping this person get over their fears.

Forcing someone to do something they don't want to do while crying isn't good intentions. Encouraging someone with a bit of a nudge to get them going when outside of their comfort zone is.

Mike zzz wrote:

Forcing someone to do something they don't want to do while crying isn't good intentions. Encouraging someone with a bit of a nudge to get them going when outside of their comfort zone is.

Sounded like a nudge to me, but we weren't there, maybe crying climber asked to be pushed into it despite the likelihood they would cry. We are out of context.

Jason Mills wrote:

At City of Rocks.

My buddy and I walk up to Wheat Thin, rack up, I'll lead, he'll follow.

As we begin to rack up, person to our left is on Rye Crisp about five feet off the ground, being belayed from above, in tears, yelling up to their belayer, "I don't want to do this! I don't want to do this!" Belayer yells down "encouragement."

I lead Wheat Thin, build an anchor, bring my buddy up, just as he tops out the person on TR on Rye Crisp tops out.

The Rye Crisp belayer to the TRer: "Awesome job! Your first trad. route!" 

TRer, in tears: "I hate this!"

Belayer: "Ohhh, you're fine ... now lets learn how to rappel!"

My buddy and I walk off and around back to our packs ... in that time the crying person has rappelled about halfway down Rye Crisp ... still in tears.

No less than 20 people watched this.

Felt so bad for this person. 

Moral of the story: The line between "encouragement" and being an asshole might not be as thin as you think.

We don't always know the backstory.

It is also possible the partners know each other very well, and were close enough to have this sort of thing happen, because they have that level of trust with each other. Perhaps the climber actually wanted to get past their fear? Maybe they had a close call? Maybe even on that route?

Yes, it may have been an asshole situation.

But it's possible it was something else entirely.

My climbing partner and I have been in this sort of situation, working through issues and supporting each other. I've been in total, crashed, tears, up on the rope. He has had his own demons to slay.

 Ironically?

One of those demon days was on Elephant rock, and plenty of people were there.

Just sayin.

Try not to judge, but for myself? 

I think it's okay to give sympathy to anyone having a hard time. That's it, though. We are not entitled to the backstory. Sometimes, that back story can entirely flip the story we make up, though!

Best, Helen

"I'm glad I borrowed that wag bag, I definitely would have shit myself at the top"

True, some people are not cut out to be climbers. Like those who disregard their partners' wishes. Also true, we don't "have context" or "know the backstory". We don't need to. Someone is explicitly saying "I don't want to do this!" and "I hate this!" 

So speak to them, be friendly, offer help. Treat them like you'd want someone you care a lot about to be treated if they were terrified and hating something. 

True, they might reply: "Oh, thanks, but no I'm fine! This is just a strange, very public, but entirely consensual panic attack role play we're doing here. I asked my partner to continue to treat me like this no matter how much I cry. I'm totally into what's happening here. They know my safe word, and I haven't said it yet. (it's tricam!) So no help needed, but thank you so much for checking in on me!" 

More likely, they'll thank you for your help and take you up on your offer. Or, say "thanks but no, I'm fine", and they might still feel a lot better knowing someone cared. Or, they might not appreciate your offer at all, may even snap at you. That's ok. You understand they're really stressed, you don't take it personally, and move on. Maybe your kindness encourages them to try climbing again sometime, knowing that not every climber is like their partner. 

But don't act like the first scenario is remotely likely. "They might secretly be happy about what's happening" is not a valid reason not to help. Admit you can't be arsed to get involved. 

Em Cos wrote:

True, some people are not cut out to be climbers. Like those who disregard their partners' wishes. Also true, we don't "have context" or "know the backstory". We don't need to. Someone is explicitly saying "I don't want to do this!" and "I hate this!" 

So speak to them, be friendly, offer help. Treat them like you'd want someone you care a lot about to be treated if they were terrified and hating something. 

True, they might reply: "Oh, thanks, but no I'm fine! This is just a strange, very public, but entirely consensual panic attack role play we're doing here. I asked my partner to continue to treat me like this no matter how much I cry. I'm totally into what's happening here. They know my safe word, and I haven't said it yet. (it's tricam!) So no help needed, but thank you so much for checking in on me!" 

More likely, they'll thank you for your help and take you up on your offer. Or, say "thanks but no, I'm fine", and they might still feel a lot better knowing someone cared. Or, they might not appreciate your offer at all, may even snap at you. That's ok. You understand they're really stressed, you don't take it personally, and move on. Maybe your kindness encourages them to try climbing again sometime, knowing that not every climber is like their partner. 

But don't act like the first scenario is remotely likely. "They might secretly be happy about what's happening" is not a valid reason not to help. Admit you can't be arsed to get involved. 

Sounds like a "mind your own business" situation. If they really needed help they would ask for it. The follower was probably just freaking out and drawing attention to it wouldn't help.

El Rito, NM--where gym climbers go to die. Stash a voice recorder there over the weekend, and you'll surely get some gems. Here's one I encountered the last time I was manipulated into climbing there:

"Check it out bro. You only need 2 draws to lead anything...Okay yeah, clip that first draw onto the bolt and then put your rope in it...Now do the same thing at the second bolt....Okay, now I'm gonna lower you to the first draw.....Take that draw off and then you're gonna put it on the third bolt."

About this time, we tried to reason with the man in charge, but he cut us off with, "Dude. I know what I'm doing."