A gentle rant: You don't know if you can do it unless you give it a full effort try.

Howdy,

You can definitely will away depressive episodes. It isn't easy, but I've done it many times in my life. My mom put me in psychology sessions as an 8 year old for anger management and ADHD. My mom was against medicating a child(thankfully). I went once a week for like 10 years. They taught me how to process my thoughts. Something I've used for benefit my entire life. My mom put a bullet in her brain when I was 13 years old because of severe depression. I definitely inherited some of that emotional instability; so, I can confidently say that you can will away suicidal ideations. Remembering the feelings that my mothers death evoked in myself is a quick way to change my outlook about things. I cant knowingly put my family through that for a second time, and thinking about that kinda forces me to try again at life, instead of just basking in depression.

In the context of climbing and willpower. I have been diagnosed with ADHD, major depression, panic disorder, bpd type 2, was medicated for all those conditions at one time or another and have now managed those symptoms without meds for 6+ years now. Mental health disorders are very real physical ailments that need to be healed, not things that can be wished or ‘willed’ away, I think that’s a very damaging take and medications do keep people out of really bad places sometimes.

That said, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) was very helpful to my process of recovery. CBT helped me identify and interrupt unproductive thought patterns and ‘change the script’ on my issues. It’s not just positive thinking, it’s heavy lifting and hard work takes time. On the flip side it may aggravate anxiety through over analyzing ones mind. There are other valid criticisms of CBT and some sources say it’s no more effective than conventional meds. For me I think it did help take the steering wheel but only after listening to what my inner self was really saying. I still have good days and bad days but now I’m better at hearing that and knowing how to take care of myself, not just pushing and pushing til something breaks and I look at my climbing the same.

In that vein I agree with OP that for me ‘do my best’ (I specifically don’t say ‘try my hardest’ though) is my most useful Redpoint mindset. Once I’ve made that commitment it’s on, doing my absolute *best* means going all out and I will not back down. I do see ‘I know I can’ and ‘I know I can’t’ as excuses, but I like ‘I know I can if I do my best’, what about that? It puts the power back on you, your best might mean training 5 years, 10 years and then coming back, who knows! These days it’s also just as important being patient, knowing myself and my rhythms. I make sure I’m getting after it on a day when I’m truly psyched up and feeling good, not just climbing it for the tick or because I ‘should’ be. Hopefully someone can get something useful out of all this text, TLDR: have fun on those rocks folks!

No, sometimes you know. 

Tradiban wrote:

Ironically the most nasty and crass comments here are attempting to refute the power of positivity. They only succeed in showing how pervasive negativity is in our society.

The mind is a powerful tool which ability is vastly underestimated and misunderstood. Many, many people "will" the depression away daily, some have to work harder than others but the point is, it takes work and faith to make it happen.

By comparing dementia, Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's disease to depression you are missing the mark, they are not the same thing. Depression has been classified as a disease to force insurance to pay for big pharma.

Sorry for the thread drift but positivity can enhance your climbing as well as your life.

Positivity sometimes cannot be found without a healthy body in my personal experience and many others. Without a decent diet, hydration and exercise I can easily see why depression is so rampant in the US. 

Tradiban wrote:

Ironically the most nasty and crass comments here are attempting to refute the power of positivity. They only succeed in showing how pervasive negativity is in our society.

The mind is a powerful tool which ability is vastly underestimated and misunderstood. Many, many people "will" the depression away daily, some have to work harder than others but the point is, it takes work and faith to make it happen.

By comparing dementia, Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's disease to depression you are missing the mark, they are not the same thing. Depression has been classified as a disease to force insurance to pay for big pharma.

Sorry for the thread drift but positivity can enhance your climbing as well as your life.

Yes, the mind is a very powerful tool. Housed in a physical brain.

Which sometimes doesn't function as it should.

Depression and other mental illnesses are not just some sort of personal willpower failure. They also can have a physical component, of brain structure, functioning, and/or brain chemistry. Treating brain health as a moral failing (I am NOT saying you do this) stigmatizes people and contributes to them not getting help when they need it.

My reply to your post stands, I don't generally revise what I say, unless there's good reason. I would have replied to your pm, publicly, on here last night, but I was at my post limit. You beat me on here this morning. 

Your post I quoted elicited the response I wrote. 

Reread what I wrote, perhaps? It was not the blanket statement you keep presenting.

For the vast majority, sure, you can do a great deal to change your attitude, positive or negative.

But not everyone. Not every time.

Insisting otherwise is dangerous and incorrect.

Now, if ya wanna get a good health care system sucks at health rant going, I'm all in!

Kinda ironic you're going after one of the most optimistic persons on MP. I usually talk the middle ground, on almost everything. I also talk with trolls.

Including this. It simply isn't as simple as thinking your way out of it, not every time, for everyone. 

We do agree that the talking part can be hard, and take work, the U.S. is overmedicated, and probably much more.

Best, Helen

I like to give it my all, around 60%. I got other things to do.

“I've always thought of myself as an 80 percenter."

Zen Master, Fisherman, Climber, Businessman, Creator, Surfer Yvon Chouinard

Ashort, Erik, Robert P, JM…. Thank you for your answers, they are good and thought provoking. I don’t really understand depression, one of my offspring suffers from it and it is difficult to stand by and watch. They had to hit the bottom before coming to grips with it. making changes to lifestyle had a lot to do with “getting better” but still it’s always right there. I wish you luck with “it”.

And now to climbing. I have a friend who wants to go climbing maybe 4 times per year, he runs a family restaurant and it doesn’t run well when he is absent. He is not a very good climber, not enuf practice, but he can manage hard 5.10 on TR by becoming ferocious and fighting his way up. I and others have commented something to the effect of “wow if I could do that I could climb 5.16….”
Trying hard is one of the keys to climbing and life in general. When I try hard, my brain goes blank and the only thoughts are about “the moment” everything else doesn’t matter. A little vacation for my brain.
Late

edit: OLH  Solid post! 

Guy Keeseewrote:

Ashort, Erik, Robert P, JM…. Thank you for your answers, they are good and thought provoking. I don’t really understand depression, one of my offspring suffers from it and it is difficult to stand by and watch. They had to hit the bottom before coming to grips with it. making changes to lifestyle had a lot to do with “getting better” but still it’s always right there. I wish you luck with “it”.

And now to climbing. I have a friend who wants to go climbing maybe 4 times per year, he runs a family restaurant and it doesn’t run well when he is absent. He is not a very good climber, not enuf practice, but he can manage hard 5.10 on TR by becoming ferocious and fighting his way up. I and others have commented something to the effect of “wow if I could do that I could climb 5.16….”
Trying hard is one of the keys to climbing and life in general. When I try hard, my brain goes blank and the only thoughts are about “the moment” everything else doesn’t matter. A little vacation for my brain.
Late

edit: OLH  Solid post! 

Thank you for the sentiment, but I personally do not struggle with depression. However, tradi was replying to someone with BIPOLAR telling them they can will away their depression (or mania?), which is so uninformed it's laughable. Not only that, it can be damaging to others that have the disorder. I sincerely hope that Tradi never has to deal with a loved one going through a bipolar manic or depressive episode, but if he did maybe he would understand some things just can't be willed away. 

I made a living crushing people with positive attitudes, both in business & as an athlete. If you want to be good at something anything you need to put the WORK in. 

This thread is depressing.

Who doesn't love Ice Cream!?

Tradiban wrote:

By comparing dementia, Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's disease to depression you are missing the mark, they are not the same thing. Depression has been classified as a disease to force insurance to pay for big pharma.

LOL. Truly spoken like someone who has never been depressed, nor known someone close to them with crippling depression.

This following comment applies to several posts in this thread: your life experiences with a mental health disorder are not universally applicable. If you beat it without medication, that doesn't mean that anyone can.

you guys could stop reacting to him as if he's actually having an honest conversation here.

Old lady H wrote:

Yes, the mind is a very powerful tool. Housed in a physical brain.

Which sometimes doesn't function as it should.

Depression and other mental illnesses are not just some sort of personal willpower failure. They also can have a physical component, of brain structure, functioning, and/or brain chemistry. Treating brain health as a moral failing (I am NOT saying you do this) stigmatizes people and contributes to them not getting help when they need it.

My reply to your post stands, I don't generally revise what I say, unless there's good reason. I would have replied to your pm, publicly, on here last night, but I was at my post limit. You beat me on here this morning. 

Your post I quoted elicited the response I wrote. 

Reread what I wrote, perhaps? It was not the blanket statement you keep presenting.

For the vast majority, sure, you can do a great deal to change your attitude, positive or negative.

But not everyone. Not every time.

Insisting otherwise is dangerous and incorrect.

Now, if ya wanna get a good health care system sucks at health rant going, I'm all in!

Kinda ironic you're going after one of the most optimistic persons on MP. I usually talk the middle ground, on almost everything. I also talk with trolls.

Including this. It simply isn't as simple as thinking your way out of it, not every time, for everyone. 

We do agree that the talking part can be hard, and take work, the U.S. is overmedicated, and probably much more.

Best, Helen

I appreciate the back pedal Helen, looks like there's alot we can agree on.

Stay positive.

PWZwrote:

you guys could stop reacting to him as if he's actually having an honest conversation here.

I blocked him a few years ago. This thread got my curiosity so I opened a few of the posts. OMG, he's even more of a raging asshole than the mere annoyance that he was.

Marc801 Cwrote:

I blocked him a few years ago. This thread got my curiosity so I opened a few of the posts. OMG, he's even more of a raging asshole than the mere annoyance that he was.

We can only hope his ignorance will eventually over ride his influence. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. 

On the plus side he is a wealth of research. Even more sad is the fact that he has children. 

If you can believe him.

Wow! This thread has become completely Americanized and we have tradiban to thank! 

How many folks here read Huxley's Brave New World and learned anything from it?

Parachute Adamswrote:

We can only hope his ignorance will eventually over ride his influence. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. 

On the plus side he is a wealth of research. Even more sad is the fact that he has children. 

If you can believe him.

Since you like to research and diagnose me, you are cordially invited onto the Tradicast. You can ask the questions.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/120505530/introducing-the-tradicast?page=11

Tradiban -

As much as I’d like to, my little sister cannot will her brains back into her skull or the bullet back into the gun. She spent more than a decade willing herself through depressive phases without the help of medical professionals until, just one time, she lacked the will.

My parents believed for years that her depression was just a result of her personal choices, keeping her from getting professional help.

I don’t know if that professional help would have kept her alive, but it couldn’t have been any worse than the ignorant idea that she could will herself through the depression. Please stop delegitimizing mental health problems. 

Klaus theKwrote:

Tradiban -

As much as I’d like to, my little sister cannot will her brains back into her skull or the bullet back into the gun. She spent more than a decade willing herself through depressive phases without the help of medical professionals until, just one time, she lacked the will.

My parents believed for years that her depression was just a result of her personal choices, keeping her from getting professional help.

I don’t know if that professional help would have kept her alive, but it couldn’t have been any worse than the ignorant idea that she could will herself through the depression. Please stop delegitimizing mental health problems. 

Dan, sorry about your sister but as usual the MP mob can only see an issue in a single dimension.

I am not delegitimizing mental health issues, I am criticizing the mental health industry. 

I don't have time to write more and lord knows the Illuminati doesn't want me to, so PM me if you care.