Leashes and Injuries

I picked up the BD Spinner Leash to use on longer climbs where I have reason to believe I could pump out and accidently lose a tool and where the risk of dropping it has real consequences. Looking over the BD literature and this little cartoon hazard warning caught my eye.

I guess it makes sense when I consider the dynamics of being elastically-connected to sharp ice tools but is this a genuine likely scenario where I'm better off leaving the leash in order to keep my orange head fluids in my noggin or is this hyped?

This is new reason I’ve not thought about before,  to never go ice climbing.  

I wouldn’t be too worried ice climbing. Mixed climbing with tethers is a PITA. It’s something that has crossed my mind though, sure would hurt.

Short version: My opinion is that tetherless is the way to go 70% of the time anyway, regardless of this potential injuries consideration.

TLDR:
For "classic" one day ice or mix climbs I would always climb tetherless , tether is too much of a PITA, if you drop a tool you can always rappel down and your day may be over but there will be other days. Or just maybe be extra careful and don't drop your tools...

For winter mountaineering that is another story. When you have done a one day approach + 2/3 more hours of approach the next day, you really don't want to ruin your big outing by dropping one or 2 tools, so I consider tether to be a "necessary" PITA... 

NB: I don't know the BD tether but I would go with a full strengh one you can "almost" hang from (I just use two Nineteen G biners on mine)

Tony Bob wrote:

I guess it makes sense when I consider the dynamics of being elastically-connected to sharp ice tools but is this a genuine likely scenario where I'm better off leaving the leash in order to keep my orange head fluids in my noggin or is this hyped?

It has nothing to do with elastic leashes but with leashes in general. With most everything one needs to do some risk analysis. As said above, the risk of dropping a tool and its implications. Going down or not going home. 

Sidebar a friend once dropped a tool and watched it plummet down into the abyss only to land squarely on his partner's head. Fortunately, he was wearing a helmet. The tool was not recovered, but they had already summited (Cerro Torre) and on their way down.

I watched what the little cartoon depicts happen right in front of me. Dude ended up falling, tools popped when the leash reached maximum extension, and one of the tools was propelled straight into the guys face. Nasty cut from cheek to jawbone. 

Related - how many of you use a leash with a mountaineering ax? I always have and like being able to clip my leash into my belay loop. Also, if I ever started to fall/slide, it seems like there would be less chance to lose my ax. However, it seems like all the "kids these days" run their mountaineering axes without a leash. 

And, I still like straps on my ski poles, but that's a discussion for a different forum.

Rexford Nesakwatch wrote:

Related - how many of you use a leash with a mountaineering ax? I always have and like being able to clip my leash into my belay loop. Also, if I ever started to fall/slide, it seems like there would be less chance to lose my ax. However, it seems like all the "kids these days" run their mountaineering axes without a leash. 

I have a leash on my ice axe. But I rarely tether my axe to my harness. The leash goes around my wrist. I might tether it to my harness when traversing a major crack field.

For someone climbing an ice pitch on TR you can attach the tethers to the rope rather than their harness. Then the tools stay attached to the system but separate from the person. Dramatically lessens the risk of getting an elastic propelled dagger flying at your face.

If you don’t have any real need to have tethers (like when climbing TR) I don’t think it’s any benefit to be attached to the tools. And if you tether the tools to the harness and fall, it is likely that the tools will hit you on the way down. 

I started ice climbing last year, and being a dumb ass I went way into the deep end and tried to climbing this multipitch on lead.

I was of course afraid to lose a tool, so I got a tether. First thing I found out that its important not to clip the rope though the tether or you will have something to deal with. The I realized that I was in way over my head, and I ended taking a whipper while desperately trying to place a screw. It was a long fall (well over 10 m/ 30 feet) and the tether acted as a homing device for my tools resulting in me taking a pick to the dome. I wore a helmet and was very lucky. I walked away without any injuries despite the big whipper, hitting a shelf and taking an ice pick in the half domed dome.

Would I use a tether again? Probably, because I have no intention of whipping on ice again. You really should not fall on lead on ice, so it should not be a factor. If you however use a tether and fall, its likely that the tools will hit you. Simply don’t use it if you are top roping and there is no consequence with a fall. Just having a poor belayer with some slack on the TP could result in something scarry with tethered tools.

Fabien M wrote:

Short version: My opinion is that tetherless is the way to go 70% of the time anyway, 

Agree with Fabien, but would go even more like 94%  

Using them on TR?? Why?

Mark Pilate wrote:

Using them on TR?? Why?

It’s a fairly rare occurrence that I’ll do it. I’m in the ~95% of the time no leashes camp. Usually while climbing with newer folks in places like the Ouray Ice Park where there’s open water below a climb and dropping a tool will likely result in losing the tool. Or if taking someone up their first multi pitch where they’re following everything. There’s a time and place. 

Matt Z wrote:

It’s a fairly rare occurrence that I’ll do it. I’m in the ~95% of the time no leashes camp. Usually while climbing with newer folks in places like the Ouray Ice Park where there’s open water below a climb and dropping a tool will likely result in losing the tool. Or if taking someone up their first multi pitch where they’re following everything. There’s a time and place. 

Dropped a tool in running water on my first ice climb ever, haven’t dropped a tool since.

Love teathers.  Hated them in the 80s. In the 80s we had  leashes so teathers stupidly redundant.  Lots of folks lose tools in the snow these days.  .  Teathers help me relax my grip.  Especially while soloing.  It's ice climbing.  Don't fall.  HTFU it's ice  climbing.  Getting your face slashed is normal;)

One of the only falls I’ve witnessed (outside of sport drytooling) the little BD biner just broke and the ice tool stayed in place.  Crisis avoided and orange brain fluid avoided.

If someone has any interest in alpine climbing I’d recommend spending a fair bit of time at the crag climbing with tethers.  I’ve seen a couple competent ice climbers get a bit flustered in the mountains because they hadn’t practiced nearly enough with tethers.  They were junk showing and it was seriously slowing them down. 

Jamila W wrote:

I took that to mean following a pitch.  Not literal top roping.

I’d still recommend against the practice in general.
First, unless you’re on a serious, non-reversible or overnight Alpine climb, tethers are like having sex with your socks on.

Second, if following a pitch, hopefully you’re not going to be dropped far enough for the situation to be an issue - not like a lead fall.  If you’re feeling sketch, just yell “take”.

Third, if you DO do it this way (clipping to the rope rather than harness) just be aware that if the scenario happens that you were guarding against (being dropped below your tether extension), you now are out of reach of your axes …not insurmountable, but you and your leader should be aware of it and have your solution plan figured out ahead of time so there is not a lot of flailing, yelling, and confusion in that event. 

I'll add - for TR, I stopped hitching to my harness and just clip it to the rope with a carabiner. I slipped once and had a high tool well in, so that the leash caught me before the top rope did - and that effing hurt. 

Mark.  Aren't you over thinking this  a bit.  Personally I have a system and I stick to it.  It's simple that way.  I  suit up the  same way  every time regardless of if I  am  leading  or  following.  Single  or multi pitch.  Teathers work for me so they are part of my system.  I  use the system all the time so the  system works.  It is pretty interesting how many folks lose  tools in the snow  at  Frankenstein  which is mostly single  pitch.  For me it is more about  just being able to relax my grip while climbing  and less thought when cleaning the tools. I  also solo at least 50 percent of my  climbing days so it makes perfect sense to  use the teathers.  Use them enough  as in all the time and you stop having issues with them.  No big deal , just  climbing.  

Don't fall even on top rope while ice climbing.   If you are getting gassed just clip directly into a screw before you clean it. shake out and get it back together before you clean the screw and continue climbing. 

I'm kinda surprised at the number of people who think dropping a tool is no big deal. I guess being on a fat multipitch ice route with a partner and their set of tools isn't the worst, if you can get a screw where you are. But for a lot of my climbing, I am counting on my tools like my arms. I tend to have a rap cord when soloing, but sometimes being able to down climb (on the route or descent) is something I have planned for. It isn't that I think I'll drop one, it's that if it happened I'd be screwed, and it's just so easy to mitigate entirely. Like Nick said, now I don't have to think about it.

I have never used a tether on an ice axe. I used to live in Oregon, and that was what the gumbies did on Hood, while they were roped up three deep on steep snow with no protection. It just looked like a big mess of climbers and ice axes waiting to roll down the mountain, taking a new ice axe wound every five seconds for 3k' of rolling downhill. 

I basically never use a leash on a regular ice axe.

With ice tools, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. 

Sometimes, it's nice to have leashes just so you don't forget your tools at a belay on ten way down!

It's also nice to have leashes sometimes when you're climbing mixed stuff and it's just easier to drop a tool and use your hands on the rock, to place gear, whatever, rather that shouldering a tool, clipping to harness, worrying about dropping, and so on. 

Anyway, my 2 cents.