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Accident at Haus Rock near Keystone, CO (Petzl Shunt accident)
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Glad you are still amongst us. Wishing you a speedy recovery. |
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Hey all! I just wanted to make a quick post about the rope diameter. I imagine that the 10-11 mm recommendation is based on camming action, similar to the grigri recommendations. There's no telling whether this accident would have happened if I was using a 10.1 mm static line. It's possible it wouldn't have. But what definitely happened is the aluminum body of the device warped under force to let the rope out. It seems like based on the size and direction of the forces, the warping could be large enough to let any diameter rope out. This accident could definitely happen with a larger diameter rope. In other words, don't use the system I've described in this post with any rope. The Shunt has a major weakness that needs to be accounted for with extra precautions. Thanks for all of the well wishes everyone! I'm in a rehab facility now and on the mend. I hope to be able to stand/walk again in 5-6 weeks, and hopefully I'll see you all out there in 2022 :) Craig |
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Hey Craig, you seem to be interested in the physics of what happened, and you have the time ;). Would you be interested in making a visual description of the forces applied to the shunt that caused it to flex and let go of the rope? You mentioned high stepping causing a more dynamic fall. Did the shunt stop feeding during that moment? How much slack do you estimate it created (IE fall factor estimation)? I've heard of the shunt flexing as low as 4kn |
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Hi all! I've decided to write a short essay along with a few quick updates for each week of my recovery. The first week's essay (about the pain scale) is up now if you'd like to check it out :) http://www.craigfaulhaber.com/climbing-blog/ Craig |
Craig Faulhaberwrote: Nice read! I didn't scroll down far into the older posts, but, I did see the "fall risk" pic. That's hilarious! Keep your sense of humour, remember people put here care, even if it may not seem like it sometimes. Best, Helen |
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Ugh, I used to own a Shunt. I forgot how they were constructed until those pictures were posted. Yeah, you can see how extreme force can just pry the shell open a little and the rope will pop out. The Gri Gri has a much more positive capture of the rope, so switch to it for soloing. Yeesh. |
Craig Faulhaberwrote: Great writing and a great attitude, Craig! Wishing you a quick and complete recovery. |
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I just posted an essay about my second week of recovery if you'd like to give it a read. It explores why I don't feel bummed about my accident and gives a few updates: http://www.craigfaulhaber.com/climbing-blog/2021/10/1/fall-risk-week-2-life-narrowed Again, thanks to all those who read last week's post and for all of the well wishes and positivity. It's nice to have a creative outlet when you can't do much else :) |
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Loving your writing - and your attitude Craig! Thanks for sharing these posts. I know you have a great support system, but definitely hit me up if you (or Jackie) need anything. Erika |
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Looks like Dave Macleod removed his video on TRS with the Shunt, presumably not coincidentally. Anyone know if he was contacted about this accident? I checked the comments on the video a week or so after Craig got hurt, and there wasn't anything about it. Hope you are healing well Craig. |
J Cwrote: I wrote him a note via his website "contact" page. Not sure if he saw it or not. I think Craig may have reached out as well. I think it's super dangerous to have a "guide" to using the shunt for rope soloing without a strong disclaimer and Dave seems to be a really good guy, so probably not a coincidence. |
Seth Teeple wrote: Hey Seth, There are a number of problems I see here. 1) The first link you provided says (from Petzl), "the shunt is not recommended for use in solo TR because of the risk the cam could jam in an overhang situation". Ok, so the cam might get jammed, and then you'd be stuck. That would suck, and the reader might think, "well, if I'm ok with that because I can get it unstuck" or maybe "well, I won't use it in overhang situations." But note that Petzl does not say "because the shunt might become disconnected from the rope altogether." That might cause the reader to think differently about the risk factors. So I strongly disagree with your view that Petzl has done a great job describing the risks here. In fact, given that the device can flex or twist completely off the rope, I don't see a single reliable use for this device whatsoever, and I believe it belongs in the trash can. 2) The 2nd and 3rd links you provided have nothing to do with the shunt, but instead discuss the use of an ascender for TR self-belay. I disagree with Petzl here that using a conventional ascender (a handle with a toothed cam) is a good device for self-belay. Having been on YOSAR and having personally seen the end result of what happens when an ascender twists sideways on a tensioned rope (spoiler: it can come completely off the rope, and this has happened and killed more than one follower on El Cap), I think it's a terrible choice even as a secondary device. Using a microtraxion (also made by Petzl) instead of an ascender would be a far better choice since the microtraxion cannot come off the rope. I also think it's bad to have a slack sling between the climber's harness and the progress-capture devices, as this creates a shock-loading fall. I attach the microtraxion directly to my belay loop and my falls are inches rather than feet in length. 3) Dave MacLeod isn't just a "youtuber." He's a professional climber with thousands of people listening to him and watching his videos. I wish that, beyond just removing his shunt-based TR solo video, he'd replaced it with a warning to not use this system. Someone will eventually die if its use continues. --------- Here's my advice on the Petzl shunt, if you have one: throw it away. |
John RBwrote: I’m also not a fan of using a handled ascender bit I’d be very surprised if it is possible to twist one off of the rope with the technique petzl is showing. When the top hole in the ascender is clipped it sure seems like it would be really hard for the ascender to come off. Could you elaborate on the failure method that you are talking about? And I thought shunts have pretty much been replaced by more modern devices. I’ve never had any formal rope access training but have a lot friends that have and I think I remember a conversation about other failures of shunts and their removal from normal rope access use. Anybody with formal access know if they are still being used regularly? |
Mikey Schaeferwrote: Hi Mikey, I have this visceral reaction based on an accident on El Cap in the 90s where a guy had both ascenders come off the rope while following a traverse. As you know, the recommended technique when cleaning an aid pitch is tie in short directly to the rope (as opposed to just tying knots in the rope) even though it makes it harder to jug. The reason is that ascenders can twist off, especially on traverses. In this particular accident, the climber was tied into the end of the rope but hadn't tied in short, so he ended up dead at the end of his rope instead of at the base. I don't recall if he had either ascender clipped to the rope via the top hole. I agree with you that it would seem to help limit the chances that an ascender could twist off of the rope, but just standing here in my garage with an ascender attached to a rope with the top hole clipped, I still don't want to solo on that set-up. The only rigs I TR solo on are (1) grigri with knots tied below me and (2) double microtraxions with the retention nubs removed so they can't lock open. In the 90s I used a Soloist (Rock Exotica) and a Silent Partner to rope solo, but I wouldn't any longer. |
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Thanks Craig for sharing your experience. Just did an analysis of the simple setup used to TRS (Top Rope Solo) by Dave MacLeod. See the analysis here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12u4KHkKXPJgyBdj6wIfrvPFo9nlgWFeyATGIgktzXcY/edit?usp=sharing and the original EXCELLENT YouTube video from MacLeod here: https://youtu.be/MIurTukUOpU . Will you still use the Shunt for TRS after all this? |
Mikey Schaeferwrote: A few years back Petzl changed the design of their Basic ascender (the one I've been TR solo-ing on for 20 years) to something more similar to the Croll. The change eliminated the ability to capture the rope with a biner through the holes (now only one hole) at the top of the ascender body. And guess what? They went from supporting the Basic as a TRS device to advising against it for that use. That tells me that capturing the rope in the device body is understood by Petzl to be a necessary element for TRS use. From my own experience with the Basic, I have zero concern of it popping off the rope, though of course I have a back-up safety system as well. |
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I noticed that the conversation is still going here, so I figured I'd send an update. I didn't reach out to Dave MacLeod, but I did notice that he removed his video. I really appreciate that he creates his videos, and I'm glad that he is willing to adjust them when new information about a device comes to light. I've been discharged to in-home physical/occupational therapy. My home has been a van for the last 4.5 years, so I'm in a wheelchair accessible extended stay hotel for now. Unfortunately, my timetable for walking has been moved back to mid-January, but I'll heal up eventually, and be back out there as soon as I can be! Not TR solo, and certainly not on a shunt, but with a partner :) Also, here's my week 3 essay. Week 4 coming soon. I hope you give it a read and I hope you enjoy! http://www.craigfaulhaber.com/climbing-blog/2021/10/8/fall-risk-week-life-as-a-dog Stay safe everyone! Craig |
Craig Faulhaberwrote: Very interesting to read these posts Craig! |
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Get well soon. |
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Damn, Chris. Sounds like a horrible accident. Glad it wasn't worse, and man are we all lucky there was no major head trauma, because your writing is awesome; and math is the best, as are the people who teach it well -- pretty sure I've heard your name tossed around before in passing as one of those climbers who cranks hard AND helps countless folks appreciate the joy of a finding the general solution for a tricky DiffEq. Really impressed with the way you are making the best of a rough situation. Wishing you a swift road to a full recovery. Take care, and please don't hesitate to reach out if there's anything we can do to help as your body heals up. |
