Who is causing this awful weather?

No such thing as bad weather; only poor attitudes and planning.  Case in point, The Heckler.  Also, the West makes you soft. 

Hey man, the West is the BEST!  Enjoy the rain while it lasts!

Ward Smithwrote:

I wanna move to Arizona, but the wife tells me that lots of rock + rainfall deficit + huge fires + climate change  = no move.

I'm on top of a hill and the water table is at 10 feet at what passes for a drought here so it is hard to argue with her.

Ward,

We have friends who live in Palm Springs CA...

Below sea level, in a desert, 25 (or less) miles from the San Andreas fault...

And, in 2020: there were 150+ days of 100F+ temperatures....

They had no answer when I asked them: "So, this is your 'Plan A' ?"

ed "what could go wrong..." e

ps. Ms. Growler knows best, listen to her...

Insert namewrote:

I am not saying you or anyone should sacrifice area of choice. More so saying that if you or anyone in that area starts complaining about droughts or giant fires we should tell you to shut up because you put yourself there and if you don’t like it leave.

Just point out your logic in terms of climate and water play a huge role in issues with the west.

Absolutely, but I wasn't here complaining (was I?).  We knew the issues long before moving.  Vegas recycles most of their water, the issue though is if Lake Mead ran completely dry all that recycling is moot because the recycled water gets sent back to the lake, not stockpiled someplace.  Still have to draw water from somewhere.  Other cities (like LA) are moving in the same direction with facilities for recycling being built right now. The lack of foresight astounds me though, it's only in recent years the idea of banning lawns in the desert has gained any meaningful traction.

New York City has had two catastrophic flood events in 2 years.  Hurricane season isn't over either.  Global warming isn't going to spare anyone.  Hopefully people back East realize they're not immune to major disruptions, including many waterfront cities losing blocks of downtown in 50+ years as the sea levels continue to rise.

Funny side note, we lived in West Sand Lake NY prior to moving, earlier this year they had catastrophic flooding.  We had 4 ways of getting to a highway from our home, all 4 routes were completely washed out.  Had we stayed, we would have been facing severe basement flooding (we had only once had an inch in 13 years living there) as well as the general major disruptions from being cutoff from the world.  Should we have stayed?  Should we not be grateful to have dodged that bullet?

No one's climate challenges are better/worse than the other's.  It's certainly a defensive response to my posts to suggest otherwise.

Chris Ducawrote:

No such thing as bad weather; only poor attitudes and planning.  Case in point, The Heckler.  Also, the West makes you soft. 

There's a fine line between being a hardass and living in a quasi-denial state of perpetual compromise.  We decided to reduce the compromises.

The old tropes about "you can climb in the rain" and "you aint tough enough to live here" are fun around the campfire hi-fiving your equally delusional buddies, but realize it just makes you look egotistical to the other 99.99% of the world.  [side note: most of the best climbers in the US live in the Western half of the country.  Why is that?  Is soft the new hard?]

Northeast life isn't *that* hard.  We survived 20 years doing stuff outdoors in the northeast, and had some good adventures. We're certainly hardier than most.  But if outdoors time is important and there's places where it can be doubled (or tripled), why not do it?

Kevin Heckelerwrote:

Absolutely, but I wasn't here complaining (was I?).  We knew the issues long before moving.  Vegas recycles most of their water, the issue though is if Lake Mead ran completely dry all that recycling is moot because the recycled water gets sent back to the lake, not stockpiled someplace.  Still have to draw water from somewhere.  Other cities (like LA) are moving in the same direction with facilities for recycling being built right now. The lack of foresight astounds me though, it's only in recent years the idea of banning lawns in the desert has gained any meaningful traction.

New York City has had two catastrophic flood events in 2 years.  Hurricane season isn't over either.  Global warming isn't going to spare anyone.  Hopefully people back East realize they're not immune to major disruptions, including many waterfront cities losing blocks of downtown in 50+ years as the sea levels continue to rise.

Funny side note, we lived in West Sand Lake NY prior to moving, earlier this year they had catastrophic flooding.  We had 4 ways of getting to a highway from our home, all 4 routes were completely washed out.  Had we stayed, we would have been facing severe basement flooding (we had only once had an inch in 13 years living there) as well as the general major disruptions from being cutoff from the world.  Should we have stayed?  Should we not be grateful to have dodged that bullet?

No one's climate challenges are better/worse than the other's.  It's certainly a defensive response to my posts to suggest otherwise.

Localized flooding really doesn’t Comparable to multi-state droughts. One is localized to low elevation near bodies of water the other covers most of the west.

Most people don’t move to an area strictly for climbing, rather a happy medium between leisure, friends, job and in our case the outdoors. Last I checked NH, WV, TN, Upstate NY weren’t really the Mecca’s for major media, job opportunities, or expensive climbing gyms. Undiscovered & Bigger objectives out west = more spot light for pro climbers. Also there are a few issues....It’s like you saying most good surfers live in California, but they haven’t won a tour since the 90’s. So maybe that’s just a assumed presumption because of the amount in the media. Woods/Puccio are from Dallas Texas (not a climbing Mecca), Sasha/Ashima/Robinson/Graham/Potter/etc are from the east coast and made their names by climbing hard here. So location doesnt seem to equal = stronger climbers. It just means a the cities out west gives them a lifestyle much different than a small NE town or a southern city so they move.

 What the east does offer is a rather low cost of living near quality rock/mediocre snow/decent ice/etc. You aren’t scoring many homes near most desirable western areas for under $350k. Rain is comparable to fire smoke, but the exception would be Rain doesn’t cause long term health issues.

Frankly, I think the east sucks and the less people here the better. 

"What the east does offer is a rather low cost of living"

It does?  Maybe the southeast.... but the northeast is a total joke of overpriced homes.

Russ Keanewrote:

"What the east does offer is a rather low cost of living"

It does?  Maybe the southeast.... but the northeast is a total joke of overpriced homes.

Pending where you live. Covid threw prices off for sure. But outside of the cities most are still much lower than out west. 

Insert namewrote:

 Woods/Puccio are from Dallas Texas (not a climbing Mecca), Sasha/Ashima/Robinson/Graham/Potter/etc 

All of those climbers (except Ashima) moved to CO/UT/CA to better pursue climbing. So you are making a different point than you think you are by dropping those names. Same can be said of Webb, Litz, Davis, Kinder, Foley, Vasya... almost all the top eastern climbers eventually move west.

Eastern climbing is great, and there are various pros/cons to living in any spot in the country. But for a given level of time and motivation availability, you will get more and better climbing done by living somewhere with a favorable climate and lots of rocks.

I've lived in MD, VT, CO, WA, and CA. I loved New England in many ways, but moving west (to specific climber friendly locations) was a great boost to my climbing opportunities. The weather is a major part of this.

Also - generalizing "the west" is a bit silly. It is a huge and varied area. There is desert and rain forest, mountains and plains, expensive and cheap locations, areas with great climbing and areas without.

Insert namewrote:

What the east does offer is a rather low cost of living near quality rock/mediocre snow/decent ice/etc. You aren’t scoring many homes near most desirable western areas for under $350k.

LOL show me a town in NH/MA/VT near anything desirable where I can get a 3br house for under $350k?  Don't think so...

I think it’s important to have an outdoor recreational activity for rainy days as well as dry ones. There really is no such thing as bad weather if you can enjoy any weather. I just got a canoe. Canoeing in the rain is awesome. 

Russ Keanewrote:

"What the east does offer is a rather low cost of living"

It does?  Maybe the southeast.... but the northeast is a total joke of overpriced homes.

I once bought a 2br bungalow in Sugarhouse for 79k, 20 years later it is worth almost 400k, quite unaffordable for the first time home buyer. Finding acreage and building in the NE is still quite affordable compared to buying something turnkey(low inventory), one just has to be ready to work for it instead of just scanning the web on the toches.

It still amazes me that a pandemic somehow raised market values so much outside of most cities, I guess people finally realized how filthy most cities are?

Charles Iguanawrote:

LOL show me a town in NH/MA/VT near anything desirable where I can get a 3br house for under $350k?  Don't think so...

What do you consider desireable?
there are homes in Rumney, Noco, New Paltz area that all meet your requirements.

To the person above you: sponsored athletes move to the scene with the most spot light. No one gives a shit who climbs some 5.14/5.15 in New England, just like no one cares what Kelly Slater does when he surfs in FL, yet a nice background in Hawaii pays the bills.

The West has far more Photogenic scenery/climbs. places like SLC/Boulder can fit far more people than most climber towns in the east (outside of Chattanooga?). There are a ton of Cons to living in rural America.

Ultimately yes the East sucks, lemme know when you move west and sell me your home.

Insert namewrote:

Localized flooding really doesn’t Comparable to multi-state droughts. One is localized to low elevation near bodies of water the other covers most of the west.

Most people don’t move to an area strictly for climbing, rather a happy medium between leisure, friends, job and in our case the outdoors. Last I checked NH, WV, TN, Upstate NY weren’t really the Mecca’s for major media, job opportunities, or expensive climbing gyms. Undiscovered & Bigger objectives out west = more spot light for pro climbers. Also there are a few issues....It’s like you saying most good surfers live in California, but they haven’t won a tour since the 90’s. So maybe that’s just a assumed presumption because of the amount in the media. Woods/Puccio are from Dallas Texas (not a climbing Mecca), Sasha/Ashima/Robinson/Graham/Potter/etc are from the east coast and made their names by climbing hard here. So location doesnt seem to equal = stronger climbers. It just means a the cities out west gives them a lifestyle much different than a small NE town or a southern city so they move.

 What the east does offer is a rather low cost of living near quality rock/mediocre snow/decent ice/etc. You aren’t scoring many homes near most desirable western areas for under $350k. Rain is comparable to fire smoke, but the exception would be Rain doesn’t cause long term health issues.

Frankly, I think the east sucks and the less people here the better. 

There's a lot to unpack here but most of it was addressed by other replies.

"Local" as in 5 state widespread flooding?  You again seem to mitigate the issues back East.  They're different, but they're pretty... serious(?).  Just ask anyone who's been flooded in the past 15 years (there's been many events that have affected Upstate as well as the metro areas).  It's getting so bad New Orleans is becoming a ghost town, how long until it starts happening in Philadelphia, Manhattan, Boston?  Who's going to be able to afford the insurance?

Climbers choose to live here because they can get out to climb almost all year round, and if they want winter sports they can find that too.  And mountain biking, some paddling, endless hiking.  It's very different from northeast outdoors life, in all positive ways.  The amount of climbing here is astounding, in three years we're still working on our tick list with no end in sight.  That's just from our front door.  The "scene" is the scene because that's how good things are here.  It's not hype.  You don't have to like it, or accept it.  That why words like denial exist.

Housing in the West tends to be concentrated mostly where there's a city, with municipal water and electric, as well as jobs.  This affects pricing since your options are more limited.  Suburbs are still small cities with only a couple tall buildings (sprawl).  The few who live off the grid have to dig new wells fairly often and those houses al tend to cost a lot.  Wildfires may be driving some of those people out, same way people are leaving New Orleans.  Climate refugees.  Northeast already has refugees, we would consider ourselves that.  We left mostly because of the crappy weather.  And it's only getting crappier.  The long term question for the West will be how long droughts last and if there will be sustainable sources of water.   There's promising advances in desalinization, so hopefully that eases Los Angeles's draw/needs.

Fwiw, the cost of living in Vegas is nearly identical to the Albany NY area, which has a low cost of living.  LA, San Fran, Seattle, Boulder, even SLC now not so much.  Picking where to live, going back to my prior post(s), requires weighing the various factors relating to the social and economic opportunities.  Duh.  Pick wisely, like you should also back East.

Joseph W. Duttonwrote:

I think it’s important to have an outdoor recreational activity for rainy days as well as dry ones. There really is no such thing as bad weather if you can enjoy any weather. I just got a canoe. Canoeing in the rain is awesome. 

That's very Zen, and I'm not there.  I've definitely experienced 'bad' weather.  I've gotten out in it.  No thanks.

If my main interests are climbing and hiking, but the weather is dictating I will be paddling 50% of the time, then I probably need to rearrange my interests or move to where the weather better suits my needs.  Right?  Or just live in the endless compromise??

M Mwrote:

It still amazes me that a pandemic somehow raised market values so much outside of most cities, I guess people finally realized how filthy most cities are?

I think it comes down to quality of life and/or what the individual values.  We can go to the movies and eat at a good restaurant just about anywhere in America.  Unless there's a very specific need, why live anyplace that has major drawbacks?  With remote learning and employment the gates are wide open for people to live where they want.  Many are clearly pushing back on the recent trends toward big city life.

Kevin Heckelerwrote:

  Wildfires may be driving some of those people out, same way people are leaving New Orleans.  Climate refugees.  Northeast already has refugees, we would consider ourselves that.  We left mostly because of the crappy weather.  And it's only getting crappier.  

You sure you want to use the word refugee to describe a voluntary move to a place with more sunny days so you can recreate more? You may be misunderstanding the word, or unaware of how your usage may be insensitive to actual climate refugees. The northeast has been pretty lucky so far in terms of climate change driven disasters. A little hotter, a bit more intense and variable rain, and some more large storms. The climate is not forcing anyone anywhere. Yet.

If we're talking climate impacts, what about the tick population and Lyme disease risk? See here:

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-lyme-disease

Upward trend in Lyme disease most notable in VT, NH, ME, where winters aren't getting cold enough to control tick population like in the past.

This is a real factor that would give me pause in considering moving back to northern New England. Ticks and Lyme Disease are nasty stuff, and climbers trashing around the woods are especially at risk. Thoughts from New England climbers?

Ticks and Lyme are scary but not too bad tbh, just wear long pants and shirts while moving through brush and thoroughly check yourself at the end of the day.

JCMwrote:

This is a real factor that would give me pause in considering moving back to northern New England. Ticks and Lyme Disease are nasty stuff, and climbers trashing around the woods are especially at risk. Thoughts from New England climbers?

Sure, they're bad. And Lyme sucks. I do make some choices over others because of ticks (and mosquitoes, etc.). But it's pretty easy at the end of the day to do a quick check for them. And hopefully if you do get bit, you notice and go on antibiotics right away. Compared to other disasters, ticks are something that individuals can mostly manage on their own.