no camping - El Portal Parkline 10pm-6am - $100 fine, new ordinance

When you create that much of a scene,  with a complete lack of respect for like anything you gotta expect this shit is coming. I know of several other locations that I have stopped using because of the rediculous scene there these days…  it has even been making me question my presence there as it clearly effects others being there and perhaps gives the wrong idea to people who seem  a bit ignorant.  Wtf happened to being discrete and respectful?  Parking two cars wide completely blocking a pullout and setting up a sprawled encampment with tents and shitting 5 feet away in the trees when theres an unlocked restroom less than 1/4 mi away, etc? Fuck off!!
 

Having lived around touristy areas I've learned that parking spots in general have a domino effect, even if its marked as illegal, if one person does it the masses tend to follow. 

A V wrote:

You can if you have a permit for a wall 

edit: since I got limited on my replies - because you’re prehauling, fixing, etc. or you could just get a permit and not get on the wall - just have it so you can leave your car in the valley. The permit system is bound to get abused if this el portal thing gets enforced.

edit2: Looks like all of the pullouts further down the road are still good to go according to 10.08.031(B)! Woo!! 

You absolutely cannot get a Bigwall Permit if you don't expect to get on a bigwall. The climbing rangers will ask what route you plan to do , and will monitor your progress. Also the locals and Bigwallers will grill your ass for abusing the free permit system and making it harder to climb for the entire community. This is the most BS selfish advice I've seen in the whole thread.

And it is exactly this attitude that forces more and more rules to be written up and enforced. Have fun digging your own grave, you rebel you,

Ryan Sheridanwrote:

You absolutely cannot get a Bigwall Permit if you don't expect to get on a bigwall. The climbing rangers will ask what route you plan to do , and will monitor your progress. Also the locals and Bigwallers will grill your ass for abusing the free permit system and making it harder to climb for the entire community. This is the most BS selfish advice I've seen in the whole thread.

Lets be real.. nobody is truly a local in Yosemite. This mentality is no different than shitty surfing localism. Dirtbags WILL exploit the system. Always have, always will. If the park insists on making new rules, they should anticipate the loopholes people will inevitably find. 

All jokes aside...it'll be interesting to see if the new signs down in El Portal pullout does anything to curb the Sprinter in"van"sion that usually happens around October, November. 

If it goes from 30 sprinters to 10, small victory for the local's...wait I mean people who live in El Portal who are not locals just grumpy they have to pass sleeping climbers on their way to work.

I do wish Camp 4 was fully open to allow more options for climbers. That is a bummer.  

Max Rwrote:

Lets be real.. nobody is truly a local in Yosemite. This mentality is no different than shitty surfing localism. Dirtbags WILL exploit the system. Always have, always will. If the park insists on making new rules, they should anticipate the loopholes people will inevitably find. 

This isn't a loophole though, it's just AV encouraging people to flagrantly break the law. His little buffer idea is outlined by NPS : 

"Climbers with a wilderness climbing permit may spend one night prior to, and one night after, an overnight climb in an open backpackers campground. The cost is $6 per night (per person); reservations are not required. These only provide tent camping; sleeping in a vehicle is not allowed"

Getting a bigwall permit in order sleep in the boulders is not only illegal, but the worst possible way to try and skirt the overnight regulations. I know dirtbags who spend alot of time here, they would never risk jeopardizing climbing access if they didn't have to. AV's horrendous strategy and romanticized views of Valley culture indicate that he has little to no experience with this place. 

The absolute worst way to get by in this place is to cause a scene and piss off the people that dedicated thier lives to climbing these walls. With this kind of attitude you won't last two weeks. 

You are also severely underestimating the capabilities of NPS climbing rangers. They can easily turn any grade 6 route you pretend to climb into a grade 4 single day romp. These guys will lap you just for kicks, and when you aren't on the routes you claim to climb, well congrats on being high profile.

A V wrote:

Personally - I try to reach out to friends that work at the park and stay with them if I can - and would be trying for Camp 4 if it were open. But - that being said - I certainly am not above sleeping the boulders they day before jumping on the wall so that my commute the next morning were easier. 

I may have caught you on a bad day - but I think the image that you have of me in your mind is a little overblown lol. But hey - if you need a heel, I'm happy to serve that role. I've certainly made the entirety of MP upset before by voicing my unfiltered POV. 

As far as having a romanticized view... I don't really (I don't think). You're being disingenuous if you think I'm the only one who is inclined to skirt the rules whenever it's discrete - officially, I have yet to be caught due to any of my permit poaching and illegal camping in the U.S. All it takes is a little strategy and thought - if you win the cat and mouse game as the unnoticed mouse - then you're a successful mouse, nawmsayn? (I know - this post draws attention to me, so it's ironic I say that while also bragging about sticking it to the man) 

yadda yadda yadda, selfishness, jeopardizing access, etc, etc, etc, not very interested in that tired alarmist viewpoint that people cram down each others throats in this country in order to get everybody to fall in line with whatever crappy deal they've hammered out with whoever. Yosemite ranks as one of the crappier places to be in this country because you have to hang around a bunch of busy bodies that simply can't keep to themselves it seems like. If only that road through the valley was never built....

The entirety of MP? Hardly. You give yourself way too much credit.

Rest assured most of MP really doesn't care about your unfiltered POV.

A V wrote:

As far as having a romanticized view... I don't really (I don't think). You're being disingenuous if you think I'm the only one who is inclined to skirt the rules whenever it's discrete - officially, I have yet to be caught with all of my permit poaching and illegal camping. All it takes is a little strategy and thought - if you win the cat and mouse game as the mouse - then you're a successful mouse, nawmsayn

Fair enough, it really is a cat and mouse game and it takes effort and know how to not get pinched. I am glad you have been successful thus far, and some of the methods you listed above are far superior to the "bigwall permit" angle.  I will admit to making assumption and being pretty upset when I read about someone advocating for something that could be detrimental to future users of the big walls. 

I still firmly believe the Big Wall Permit overstay idea is poorly thought out for a few reasons

1) Face to face permit pick up : the entire goal of a Valley Dirt Bag is to maintain a low profile. Authorities shouldn't recognize your name or face. 

2) Vehicle license plate linked to name: in order to get the overnight parking permit you need to give NPS your license plate number. If they suspect you to be doing something that isn't kosher , it's easy to stake you out

3) Unnecessarily risks climbing access: currently the permits are unlimited and free. If enough people pretend to be climbing walls, the data the rangers are collecting will be skewed towards over use and the need for more regulation. If people are caught abusing the system it will become more restrictive with harsher penalties

AV - I do think we started on the wrong foot, I fully support people trying to access thier public lands  to find adventure.  Especially in this overly beurocratic system. But we can't be encouraging people to break the law in this way, especially on an open forum. It's a bad look for the community , and could cause alot of problems . 

Jeff Lutonwrote:

Gonna have to agree with Connor on this one, the xterra I live in cost $500

Could you do the following in your $500 xterra?

Stand up in it

Invite friend(s) over to hang out

Have a lady friend road trip in it for half a year

Cook

Toilet

Drive it cross country and back for a year without any issues or worries of repairs

Solar panels 

The list goes on and on. Seems irrelevant. 

When you have people who claim to live in the park lecturing others about the "rules" it seems to be a bit hypocritical. Maybe its just me? One thing I know for a fact is that laying low and finding chill places to park and fully yard sale it are way easier in a 500$ Nissan than a 75-100k$ house on wheels. Another thing I know to be true is that people that think ahead generally dont give away their favorite campsites or their ways of avoiding the man.

Oughta buy dirt with those pennies. 

That sprinter's depreciating as we speak

Michael Rushwrote:

Could you do the following in your $500 xterra?

Stand up in it

Invite friend(s) over to hang out

Have a lady friend road trip in it for half a year

Cook

Toilet

Drive it cross country and back for a year without any issues or worries of repairs

Solar panels 

The list goes on and on. Seems irrelevant. 

No

Yes

No, but putting in applications

Yes

Wag bag, public toilets, and a shovel

Not worried about breakdowns, it’s a $500 xterra, I expect breakdowns, always have tools. Yes would drive across country and not think twice about it

No. Non perishable food only unless I’m making dinner after leaving the grocery store.

The relevant part was that won’t everybody crashing out down there in an expensive ass van.

Also, Ryan has a point about advocating for abusing the dumbass permits on the intergoogles. I don’t sit here and spray about loopholes I use to do stuff. I won’t even tell the RV people where I sleep when they ask me down in the cities. Go figure it out, don’t post it on the intergoogles

The valley sucks, might as well go climb somewhere else :) 

Spider Savagewrote:

Dare I say, there are hacks to staying in and around the Valley.  Parking a van on the side of the road is NOT one of them.  It's like an IQ test.  Figure it out.  Bottom line - you must be a ghost, unseen and leave no trace of passage.

And another note:  Tricked out Sprinter Van $120,000.   = 240 nights in a nice room at the Awahnee.  or 500 nights at the lodge. It's not the same but a comparison I make when I start thinking about van life.

Or you can buy a smaller van or even a fully built out promaster for a 1/5th of what your quoting... Buying a van was one of the better investments ive ever made. If someone can afford a 120k sprinter, then more power to them! Also there's more climbing areas than just the valley, so you can actually drive your van around to various areas believe it or not

Connor Dobsonwrote:

The valley sucks, might as well go climb somewhere else :) 

Climbing in the Valley is phenomenal. It's everything else that sucks.

If LE can't provide you with alternative resources for camping, then they cant compel you to vacate your camping spot.

The U.S. Supreme Court won't hear a landmark case on homelessness and camping bans, the court announced Monday, leaving in place a lower court's decision that cities can't enforce laws against homeless people sleeping in public places if they have nowhere else to go.

This ruling apples to campers of any kind, even in expensive sprinters, as we were told by county LE when we complained about sprinter Vans who invaded and camped at a local park near our home.   So they refused to enforce the no overnight camping ordinance since there were no alternative resources available at that time. 

Of course, county level enforcement may vary between states.  

abandon moderation wrote:

Who's going to start selling the pads of sticky notes that the NPS is hand writing your overnight 'permit' dates on? I'm sure these are already sitting in the center console of more than one climbers vehicle...

Hopefully not too many cars considering the overnight parking permit is not a "sticky note" like they give out at the gates nor does the permit form have the dates on it. Do you even bigwall in the valley brah?

Jplotzwrote:

If LE can't provide you with alternative resources for camping, then they cant compel you to vacate your camping spot.

The U.S. Supreme Court won't hear a landmark case on homelessness and camping bans, the court announced Monday, leaving in place a lower court's decision that cities can't enforce laws against homeless people sleeping in public places if they have nowhere else to go.

This ruling apples to campers of any kind, even in expensive sprinters, as we were told by county LE when we complained about sprinter Vans who invaded and camped at a local park near our home.   So they refused to enforce the no overnight camping ordinance since there were no alternative resources available at that time. 

Of course, county level enforcement may vary between states.  

Except there are alternate resources in the form of campgrounds further down the 140. LEs don't need to confirm that there's availability in said campgrounds, only that they exist as an alternate resource. Additionally, when there's legal dispersed camping in the forest land around the other entrances, anyone in a car is able to travel to those areas to bivy. Just because it's inconvenient, doesn't mean it's not available. 

Chris Bwrote:

Climbing in the Valley is phenomenal. It's everything else that sucks.

No it sucks and now you can't camp. No one should come here, tell your friends. 

abandon moderation wrote:

Who's going to start selling the pads of sticky notes that the NPS is hand writing your overnight 'permit' dates on? I'm sure these are already sitting in the center console of more than one climbers vehicle...

This worked for rmnp for the first few weeks - until they got the barcode scanners online.  Lol.

September is almost over though, and there's no entrance/parking permits required this October so we're almost through the headache of NPS regulations for the year.

Who the fuk climbs there in the scorching heat of Jun-Sept anyway?