Gabby Petito last known to be in Tetons

I understand the argument to never talk to police - there are plenty of innocent people who trusted the justice system and got screwed. However, those cases, to my knowledge, involve the naive person talking to LE on their own. I don't think someone who lawyered up from the get go has much of a leg to stand on in refusing to have a single interview. I suspect he's told the lawyer something incriminating, and they are advising him to avoid being interviewed because lawyers cannot collude with their clients to commit perjury. If this comes to court, that would limit their options in presenting a defense unless they switched representation.

As for the argument that being suspicious of the boyfriend is sexist, that seems ridiculous to me. I'd be just as suspicious if Gabby was the one who fled to Florida and the bf was missing, or if they were both women. I do think the media is more likely to talk about a missing young and attractive white woman, but that's a different issue than that the scrutiny is unwarranted. And let's not pretend the media doesn't salivate anytime a young and attractive woman is alleged to have committed a crime. Casey Anthony, anybody? Jodi Arias? Gabby is better looking than either of them and I have no doubt people would have enjoyed raking her over the coals.

As for reserving judgment until FACTS are known... well, the bf does not appear to have any plan to disclose additional info - to her family or to police. And just because he isn't providing his side doesn't mean there are no facts of the case:

Fact: He returned IN HER VAN without her.

Fact: He didn't report her missing, injured, or deceased. Her family had to report her missing. 

I'm really trying to think of how those facts could be balanced in specific circumstances, but I'm coming up short. If they fell out and broke up, how come he drove back to Florida in her van?  If Gabby attacked him and he killed her in self defense (whether accidentally or in fear for his life), that doesn't make it ok to pretend like nothing happened. If her mental health issues caused her to hurt herself, or run off, or whatever, he should have helped her get help (if possible) and if not, disclosed what happened to LE and/or her family. Definitely not returned to Florida in her car. If she just disappeared and he knows nothing about it, he should have reported her missing. All he did was drive back to Florida in HER car and immediately hire a lawyer.

ETA - In case I wasn't clear, I don't think domestic violence can be used to justify taking her van to flee all the way to Florida. I can see if he was in fear for his life taking the van to escape the immediate area, but not from Wyoming or Utah to Florida. And honestly, if he's a battered man and fled from being terrorized, I would expect his lawyer to file for a temporary order of protection - especially since that would allow him to drag Gabby through the mud. She couldn't be served, obviously, but it's all about appearances. I think his lawyer is doing a shit job. A "good" attorney would have stood on their head to portray him in a sympathetic light. All they've done is release a presser that definitely did not do that.

Caroline Rwrote:

 if he's a battered man and fled from being terrorized,...

He isn't a battered man, or terrorized unless she had a steak knife and had turned manic (4-5 months in a small van will do it to some).

 I think his lawyer is doing a shit job. A "good" attorney would have stood on their head to portray him in a sympathetic light. All they've done is release a presser that definitely did not do that.

His lawyer is better than her family's attorney. You are projecting your idea of what should happen if you were an "innocent" suspect. Certainly, no one guilty of a crime should say anything. He may be responsible for her disappearance while doing nothing nefarious with intent to hurt her. He certainly knows what happened when they parted ways.

I am guessing that law enforcement is pretending to know less than they do in case Laundrie decides to talk, and to keep Laundrie from conjuring up alibis ahead of time; or, in case LE has enough information to arrest him suspicion of a crime. You don't show your cards while playing poker, that includes lawyers.

How is there not a warrant for his arrest? I thought failure to cooperate with an investigation was illegal. I know he doesn't have to incriminate himself, but if he chooses that path, shouldn't he be sitting in jail waiting on a trial, and maybe bailed out?

@Teton Climber, I was responding to the comments that nobody should speculate or draw any conclusions because we don't have all the facts. Only two people can have all of those, one is missing and the other turned up in her van.

I made no comment about what LE may or may not know. I certainly didn't criticize them for playing any information they do have close to the chest. All I said was he is not cooperating, so it's kind of weird to act like additional information is forthcoming. That said, I have a much more conservative estimation of LE's capabilities than it sounds like you do. Maybe I'm too cynical. I live in a city with more crime than average and have had two coworkers murdered in the past 5 years. Hard to feel hopeful sometimes.

I don't feel like I'm projecting on what should happen if someone is innocent. I'm saying that the optics look bad, and that matters. If this does go to trial, you can bet his non-cooperation will be cast in the most malicious light possible.

Although note, I don't consider accidentally killing someone or doing so without nefarious purpose necessarily absolves a person. Depends on if they were being negligent.

I definitely didn't say if he's guilty he should confess that to LE. Not sure where you got that from. I expressed reservations that he could be faultless given his behavior serves him well ONLY if he's guilty of malicious harm. Even if he's guilty of involuntary manslaughter, I think the long term consequences would be better if he spoke up. Maybe not legally, but let's be real, he'd probably just get probation for involuntary. As is, he just becomes more infamous every day and the media talks more and more about it. Nobody would have heard about this if he had reported an accidental death back in August or even when he got back go Florida in September. Accidental deaths don't become news nationwide unless they involve children.

As for the whole "battered man" thing, I think you're simplifying domestic abuse. Regardless, I was simply responding to the person who asked if the response would be the same if a woman was the one to return, and the guy missing.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

How is there not a warrant for his arrest? I thought failure to cooperate with an investigation was illegal. I know he doesn't have to incriminate himself, but if he chooses that path, shouldn't he be sitting in jail waiting on a trial, and maybe bailed out?

AFAIK, there are no circumstances where police can compel someone to participate in an investigation. And that's a good thing given we have so many cases where police put immense pressure on an innocent person who sees no way out other than a false confession. If someone is charged, they can be compeled to be questioned,, but that doesn't mean they have to participate. They can just sit there and not respond.. People can be subpoenaed in court, and if they refuse to answer without pleading the 5th, they could be held in contempt of court, I suppose. But subpoenas have to be granted by a judge. Maybe you're thinking of obstruction of justice?

Classic MP back and forth. 

The only thing that matters is this. He knows something. No way he cannot. LE will find it. Innocent or not they will find it. Could take awhile considering the circumstances. Sooner than later he has to talk. 

Maybe let the trained investigators handle this one?

End of thread. 

Michael Rushwrote:

Maybe let the trained investigators handle this one?

End of thread. 

End of thread. LOL. 

Pretty sure they don't need much training. These days it is just cell phone tracking, security footage, credit card transactions,. social media metadata, text messages, and public tips. Everything is out in the open. Just a matter of going through it all. LE just follows the crumbs. Not much intelligence involved, just good old fashioned legwork.

It is unlikely any climbers in the Tetons can help but that is not the primary reason for the discussion or the national interest. 

Climbers get #vanlife, #nationalparks, the lifestyle, the youthful idealism vs reality. They know the areas they visited. It hits home for many. And it is clearly of interest like any good mystery novel. People speculating about mysteries is as old man. And sometimes the professionals get it wrong.

A V wrote:

 Hard to imagine much forensic evidence surviving long out there - but fall freezes are here - so maybe? I'll hold out some hope. 

This is true as far as soft tissue injuries, but there are plenty of cases where skeletal remains had injuries that allowed the medical examiner to rule the cause of death a homicide (or accidental). For example, blunt force trauma to the skull or a broken hyoid bone (which indicates manual strangulation). I've been amazed in the past at how there have been cases involving the former and the ME was able to determine if the injury was the result of an accident or intentional act.

Of course, the reality is that a body exposed to the elements is also exposed to animals. Scavengers routinely disperse remains. Just think of the recent case of the hiker who went missing in the alps (I forget her name). It took her boyfriend many months to find her remains. He found her skull like two weeks before the rest of her body.

Whatever the cause of her disappearance, I hope she is located. It has to be torture for her family.

jnowiswrote:

"However, I have just been thinking if the gender roles were reversed, if the majority would think that the female would be doing the right thing (remember, roles reversed)? If there was a documented altercation by police that a male narrowly escaped domestic violence charges being filed and subsequently the female fled with the male's vehicle and lawyered up, would the discussion be centered on why the female is not providing statements to media or for that matter, the police? The potential crime of stealing a vehicle/possessions  and abandoning someone (motive: to escape domestic violence) being a good reason to lawyer up and follow legal counsel advice.'

I want to respond to this ridiculous false equivalency.  The suspicion falling on the male in this case is absolutely warranted, considering the overwhelming number of men who abuse and kill women in and out of domestic partnerships, and the vanishing amount of women who do the reverse--harm and kill men.  Yes, of course, we can find examples of women abusers and murderers, and the media love these cases, but they are prominent precisely because they are so rare, compared to the everyday violence afflicted upon women by men.  The male partner of a female victim is nearly always a person or interest, and rightly so.  

I also want to emphasize what was mentioned briefly above. That whole traffic stop; can you imagine how differently that could have played out with two black or brown people in poor inner city neighborhood?  I would say there's a good chance she would have gone to jail, and they both could have been arrested, beaten, or killed.  Just sayin'

OK, with that out of the way, what's going on with this story?

Best case scenario, she had a mental break down of some kind, or they broke up, or both, and he left her and drove home.  She's hunkered down somewhere, perhaps having an episode, and hopefully she can be found and helped.  This doesn't explain why he seems so scared and guilty, and is not helping in any way.

Next scenario, they had a fight or conflict of some kind, she got lost or ran away, or, worse, she attempted or committed suicide, and he freaked out and drove home.  In this case, if he knew or suspected that she was lost, badly injured, or dead, his fear and behavior would be somewhat more understandable, but still very suspicious. I can only guess that he didn't go immediately for help because he thought/knew that he would be blamed.

Next scenario, of course, is that he committed some kind of violence, and badly injured or killed her.  And then fled.  

And the craziest scenario is that somehow they got involved with that poor married couple that were killed, which is another depressing, sad, terrible incident.  

Anyway, how he let his personal fears overwhelm his desire to help her and her family, I just don't understand.  She's a young woman, a person, out there, somewhere, and her family must be desperate.  

I hope they find her soon.  

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

How is there not a warrant for his arrest? I thought failure to cooperate with an investigation was illegal. I know he doesn't have to incriminate himself, but if he chooses that path, shouldn't he be sitting in jail waiting on a trial, and maybe bailed out?

Who said anything about a crime??? There is NO evidence a crime has even been committed!

She may have soloed the Grand and fallen for all we know. 

I'm friends with several attorneys, and all of them say there is plenty of time to tell your story. Talking to police, when you're in the crosshairs, is ALWAYS a bad idea, because your memory isn't 100%, and the police will make you out to be a liar if everything doesn't match up perfectly. Listening to your lawyer is never a bad idea.

Prisons are full of innocent people that were sure that if they told the truth the police would let them go. 

Buck Riowrote:

Prisons are full of innocent people that were sure that if they told the truth the police would let them go. 

Sure there are.

FrankPS wrote:

Sure there are.

Mostly black people, and poor people that couldn't get a lawyer. 

Estimates are as high as 5% wrongful conviction. Highly dependent on geographic location...haven't you seen "To Kill a Mockingbird" ;-)

Many times the tactic is to leverage a greater crime to get a plea to a lesser crime. The defendant is rightly terrified of life in jail, so takes a plea deal on something they didn't do....juries are unpredictable.

Hey Bruno and Caroline - I do agree with the driver of your sentiment: It is very suspicious to not cooperate with authorities. I agree A V in that this hits close to home. I have recreated in Moab, the Tetons, greater Colorado and Wyoming. I have two little girls, one 6 and one turning 9 this month.

My point, and maybe it was muddled, is that I find it odd that the fiancé is being criticized for following legal counsel advice. My point in reversing the scenarios was trying to be specific for following legal counsel advice. I think criticism for following legal advice would be lessened in reversed roles. I agree that the vast majority of atrocities in human history have been perpetrated by men. Because of this, it is culturally easier to assign a murder and speculate a double murder or triple murder on the man. I just don't think that is productive for anyone. Best case, your speculation was right and you defaulted to something horrible. Worst case, you throw out something horrible into the world that is wrong and hurtful to an innocent person. Who wins?

I do agree that he should provide a statement to LE. I never intend to put myself in a situation that I would need legal counsel, however, if I was in a situation where I sought help from legal counsel I would follow the advice of my legal counsel. I don't think that it is "ridiculous false equivalency" to switch roles and be introspective on how we view the world. Rather, it is important to honestly cross-check your world view. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not being ridiculous. Bruno, you yourself cross-checked your world view by bringing up what would the traffic stop look like in Moab, Utah if it was a black/brown couple. I agree, I am skeptical that it would have been handled the same. I would like to acknowledge that I thought the police seemed to do a good job diffusing the situation and looking at it in a lens of a mental health crisis (I watched snippets, not the full hour). Suspicion is warranted, him being a suspect of interest is warranted, speculation on a double/triple murder is not.

I do not deny that the story wouldn't be grabbed by the media as Caroline suggested in reversed roles. But that is bad journalism that is pandering to speculation and fear, just like the majority of the stories out there that are linking the Moab double murder to this case - no other evidence than being in the same town. LE certainly should be looking for connections. The media, at this point in time, should not as it is speculative and not productive. It's just click-bait.

The default in our culture is to assume that the women can't survive on her own. A man can drop out of communication and head into the wilderness to clear his head from a relationship gone bad. Right now, I hope that Gabby has taken it on herself to drop off the map and reset her mental state after a bad break-up. That is speculation though and in the end not very productive other than giving me a better feeling about the situation.

If you are in the greater search area, be on the lookout for Gabby. That is productive. If you have information, be productive and contact law enforcement. I am not sure defending my statements is productive, but maybe it is if a climber picks up this story before hiking into the Winds and spots Gabby because I bumped a thread. 

Caroline Rwrote:

Fact: He didn't report her missing, injured, or deceased. Her family had to report her missing. 

True, this is a fact from the information we know. But it is miss-leading to say fact, maybe more of a correct statement. Maybe she wasn't missing, injured, or deceased when he last saw her? Why would he report her as such if they had mutually agreed to part ways? Speculation. There has not been one fact to show that he has committed any crime. The last documented altercation was pointing the other way in terms of potential domestic abuse. We just don't have any solid information on what happened.

Good gawd - what a bunch of wordy intellectualized nonsense - she’s dead, he killed her, and his life is over no matter what.

@jnowis--thank's for your post.  I appreciate that.  I understand, now, that you were making a somewhat different point about legal counsel.  I also agree that, at least from the parts I saw, the police did a good job during that stop, starting with immediately separating the couple, getting the girl away, and asking her, "OK, what's going on."  Clearly, it turned into a somewhat strange situation.  Finally, I agree that it's always a good idea to cross-check and interogate one's impulses.  I don't always life up to that ideal :)  Anyway, I think we're largely on the same page.  I apologize it my tone was rude.

Like you, I'm a father.  I have a 12 year old daughter.  Can you imagine knowing that your child is out there somewhere, and might need help, or might be gone?  Terrible.  

James Wwrote:

Good gawd - what a bunch of wordy intellectualized nonsense - she’s dead, he killed her, and his life is over no matter what.

Wow, James W, you seem pretty sure about that?  I wouldn't say it clear at all what happened.  Although I do think he knows something.  

And what's wrong with wordy intellectualized theorizing?  Do you have a chip on your shoulder about that?  Bit f an insecurity complex?  Or do you just prefer to communicate in 17 character texts from your phone?  Better stick to Twitter.

The complexity of this puzzle is fascinating.  It is totally appropriate for "think-tank" forums like this one to speculate.  Way better than media reporters who sensationalize, twist the facts, leave out important facts, and generalize everything. As a community we have an obligation to use our special knowledge and understanding to help others in need. Please keep speculating.  It's not a very funny subject so if you have dark jokes, might want to spare the family.  They may wind up in here as part of the hunt.

Suicide that looks like murder, accidental death, total mental meltdown with highly illogical circumstances ensuing, a third party on the scene, suicide pact, human trafficking, and many things that are totally weird that no one has thought of.