Olympic Routesetters All Male?!

JonasMRwrote:

It's even worse than being just sexist. There are no route setters from Africa or Latin America. There's only one from These Great United States of America because the "Polish" woman got booted out for letting her uterus take over. Even though we created the One True Climbing Ethic here in the US.  

The IFSC included as one of it's selection requirements "Internationality, gender equality, youth" still looks like mostly white male europeans. HYPOCRISY! Don't they even know that America is the Greatest climbing nation in the world? Where's the outrage! I say we boycott the Olympics and these athletes competing under the flag of Biden's America. I, for one, will continue to not watch them.

Is your tongue so far in cheek it's flapping out your ear?

I can't always tell. 

But yes, there really should be more female trolls on MP. It's hard work!

Best, Clip Clop aka Hellenor

As a lady climber, I can tell you I'd rather be out climbing than setting routes. Sending over setting...if you ask me. Lol

The true tragedy is that all the trolls on MP have claimed/appear to be male. Except if you count OLH, but her posts are generally sincere.... When will this gentleman's club open up to include everyone?

Carey De Lucawrote:

As a lady climber, I can tell you I'd rather be out climbing than setting routes. Sending over setting...if you ask me. Lol

All the setters I know are definitely getting after it and sending on their days off. I can't imagine setting in a gym 5 days a week and bouldering double digits on the weekends, but many of them do.

Sam Cieplywrote:

All the setters I know are definitely getting after it and sending on their days off. I can't imagine setting in a gym 5 days a week and bouldering double digits on the weekends, but many of them do.

For sure those route setters are strong. You have to be to have an eye to set routes for the masses. No question. My point, I'd rather be climbing than setting routes in a gym. All the lady climbers I know must feel the same or they'd be trying to set routes in a gym. I don't think it's an equity issue. When my husband ran The ARC in Arcadia, he would have loved if I would have helped him set routes. No thanks. This is all just one ladies side, though, what do I know?

Tradibanwrote:

They are. Here's an article from the New York Times, a much more reputable source than Instagram, on the subject. There was ONE female one the team but she was ousted:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/02/sports/olympics/sport-climbing-tokyo.html

As an anecdote I once inquired with a well-known route setter why there wasn't more females on the team, his reply was "We interview them but they just can't keep up with us.".

Thanks for the link. NYT is usually correct. The Instagram picture is from a friend, who is in Tokyo shooting the Olympics. The woman in the picture was one of the setters setting routes at the Olympic center for the training. Maybe she is an apprentice setter, because apprenticeship at a certain number of international comps is part of getting the certification for the highest level setters. 

Old lady Hwrote:

Why do routes for women have to be set by women? Anyone even vaguely competent at setting should be able to set a wide range of stuff, to accommodate whoever shows up at the gym.

They don't have to be set by women. But, setting for comps at this level has absolutely nothing even remotely approximating setting at any commercial gym. Setting at this level has one and only goal  - separate roughly 10, but more realistically, 3 female climbers who have roughly 6in variance in reach and not make setting about reach.   I am not trying to keep up with latest gossip at IFSC, but I don't think they even have competitive female forerunners, even though that would help a lot.

Carey De Lucawrote:

As a lady climber, I can tell you I'd rather be out climbing than setting routes. Sending over setting...if you ask me. Lol

I hear you! I used to set routes for 12 years. It started because I was climbing in a small gym with slow route turnover, and only couple setters who were very casual about it. I asked for permission to set routes, and after minimal instructions (here’s where we keep the tools, use martini bolts for these holds, tie a backup knot bellow your grigri) I was set loose.

For several years, my only compensation for setting routes was free gym membership. I didn’t mind. I enjoyed setting, I could set anything I wanted, and grade/style, and I only needed to set 4 routes a month, at the time that was convenient to me. If it was after hours— so what!  I had the keys to the gym, I could go anytime I wanted.

Eventually, the gym climbing got busier, they got a “manager” who was in charge of routesetting, (he wasn’t called head setter back then) and I got officially hired as a setter. Getting paid $15/hr, but with more expectations attached. I was told what to set every week (this wall, these holds, this difficulty/style). When there was a comp, I had to set on specific days, and not randomly when I wanted to. Most of the setters, and the manager, too, were people like me: we had other jobs. We were all outdoor climbers. We set routes because we liked it, not because we made a living setting routes.

Then climbing got busier still. We got a new manager who was now full-time managing/setting. He could set in the morning, when the gym was less busy. So he started looking for setters who could do the same. All of a sudden, it wasn’t ok to set routes at 6pm on Tuesday, bc the gym was bustling then! We needed to choose the less-busy times. After hours was still ok, but now you had to abide with (entirely reasonable) safety rules: I couldn’t be in the gym alone when setting. I had to coordinate with another setter, so we would both set at the same time after hours. It worked for a time. I even started setting at another new gym!

Unfortunately, the gym was an hour away… One night, as I was driving back home after midnight, because I could only start my setting after 8pm on Sunday, when the gym closed early, and thinking of going to work the next morning, I realized that it just wasn’t worth my time, and effort. I thought, maybe if I set at a closer gym… there was one opening up! I applied there, and was told that, while they would love to have me, they are looking for full-time setters who could set during the morning hours.  

And that was that… it’s been two years since I set routes. 

Too smart, I called it.

Maybe its just that most women are smart enough to not take dangerous low paying dead end jobs?

By this logic, women are too smart to do first ascents of real climbs also.

Sexism is a two way street

Sam Cieplywrote:

All the setters I know are definitely getting after it and sending on their days off. I can't imagine setting in a gym 5 days a week and bouldering double digits on the weekends, but many of them do.

For how long though. Do it long enough and body as well as your passion will be diminished. I have known quite a few setters that completely walked away from climbing because of it.

Michael Bradywrote:

For how long though. Do it long enough and body as well as your passion will be diminished. I have known quite a few setters that completely walked away from climbing because of it.

True, I assume people who can climb that much and that hard are either rare genetic anomalies, or they are pushing themselves too hard and able to get away with it while they’re young. The basic requirement of being able to climb 5 days a week already precludes me from being a full-time route setter, kudos to those who can handle it.

I’ve never had roto rooter send a female to scrape poop from my sewer.  Is that due to discrimination?  Maybe women just don’t want a crappy thankless job (relatively hard work, low pay) and they are too smart for that.

I’ve never seen a female playing with RC planes, helicopter, or RC trucks.  It’s just a male dork fest, not a result of discrimination.

Edit:  Everyone beat me to the statement of the obvious. 

C’mon Jim, wimen are no smarter than men overall, I’ve known women to do some really dumb things. Speaking of sewer lines, women put some really dumb stuff down the toilet and the garbage disposal.

Men who say women are smarter have ulterior motives, or they’re just not that smart, It all depends on your definition of smart.

Kevin Worrallwrote:

C’mon Jim, wimen are no smarter than men overall, I’ve known women to do some really dumb things. Speaking of sewer lines, women put some really dumb stuff down the toilet and the garbage disposal.

Men who say women are smarter have ulterior motives, or they’re just not that smart, It all depends on your definition of smart.

People clog drains, certainly not just women. Misogyny is clearly ok with you eh?

Old lady Hwrote:

Why do routes for women have to be set by women? Anyone even vaguely competent at setting should be able to set a wide range of stuff, to accommodate whoever shows up at the gym.

The simplest answer to why the routesetters are men, is because most setters are male...

That doesn't mean it's actively antifemale, the numbers just haven't had time to catch up yet.

Best, Helen

    "   Morty Gwin                ·        Jul 23, 2021        ·                    Unknown Hometown              

Men usually have no idea that women climb, use their female specific bodies, in a manner utterly dissimilar to male beta.  No Clue. "

So, perhaps women should never set routes for men and vice-versa if you follow that logic.

Miss Montoya, 

You clearly don’t know what the dictionary definition of misogyny is

If saying that women are no smarter than men is an example of misogyny in your mind, I’m guilty of being ok with it

M Mwrote:

Exactly. I've spent enough time on plastic and climbing with highly skilled women to know that they would love to see more routes set by women. Imagine all the bruhs complaining about women set routes where more technique is required than biceps and forearms.

Maybe its just that most women are smart enough to not take dangerous low paying dead end jobs?

Route setting is dangerous? Who knew.

Kevin Worrallwrote:

Miss Montoya, 

You clearly don’t know what the dictionary definition of misogyny is

If saying that women are no smarter than men is an example of misogyny in your mind, I’m guilty of being ok with it

It's the overtones.

I wondered how long it would take good old warbler to vomit this shit up here