Pikes Peak bolt chopping resumes due to guide book publication

John Texwrote:

Kevin Murray wrote:  pull em all

Boy John you must not have much to do if you dig up old comments I made, I don't even know how to do that. Yup I am a crusty old guy but not so much of a massive ego and not really any glory days, more of a right time and right place have fun kind of days. Your logic is a bit off in my view if you feel it is ok to merrily bolt your way to nirvana. If you ever meet me you will realize I am really a warm and fuzzy kind of guy. Hugs and kisses.

La MoMofacewrote:

These fellas seem one missed haircut away from being a Shawn Snyder of the Rockies.

*hello, yes, 911, I'd like to report a murder......*

Is there any way to take legal action against these guys? Intentionally causing harm and possible death to someone who starts climbing a route, only to find at the top the anchor has been chopped and they can't get down? 

slimwrote:

says another nobody who hasn't ever climbed anything...

lolz...

Personal attacks from an admin? You must really be a somebody!

Bolts and trouble are synonymous, crowds, closures, gymbots.....

M Mwrote:

Personal attacks from an admin? You must really be a somebody!

Bolts and trouble are synonymous, crowds, closures, gymbots.....

You two keep mentioning bolts. Bolts aren't the problem here. These guys are pissed about a guidebook so they are smashing one person's sparsely placed bolts while leaving the rest up. While damaging the rock in the process. Sounds like they are doing more bolting themselves. At Turkey Rock nonetheless. So maybe use some critical thinking skills, process the situation, and realize siding with these tools is not siding with any point you are trying to make. 

Bolts clearly aren't the problem here. Talk all you want about bolts causing the issues. The fact is, it's these lone two Snyder wannabes that are causing all the trouble because they are mad about a guidebook. To come on this thread and simply mention BoLtS arE BaD or PuLL thEM aLL shows a lack of depth and is not really even related to this discussion.  

So without the bolts how many lines would be up there and would it be book worthy?

Does every area need to be hammered with bolts and have books written about it?

I don't side with the chopping, I do side with the no book thing. To me it's a fine line to bolt for profit, maybe I'm just weird.

M Mwrote:

So without the bolts how many lines would be up there and would it be book worthy?

Does every area need to be hammered with bolts and have books written about it?

I don't side with the chopping, I do side with the no book thing. To me it's a fine line to bolt for profit, maybe I'm just weird.

There have been sections in guide books about Pikes Peak in the past, but since there was little to record, just a few lines were included. Bob D'Antonio's guide that included Garden of the Gods is one of them. It has some of the stuff like Bigger Bagger and Arching Jams. As far as I know, that guide didn't cause some stampede of climbers, because you still have to take the toll road to get there. That means each trip is $15 per person or $50 per car, or you get a year pass. Guys like Phil guide up there, so they have year passes. This area is of no interest to me, another local, because I don't like waiting at gates for someone to open them, paying some fee, and so forth. I go out 24 or down 115 to other crags that have no restrictions or just basic BLM or NF rules. Even most of the old guys who are going to buy this book won't be climbing any of the routes more than likely. Guide books are a nice memento of places visited for them, and for me, as I'll get it myself.

Many other places I go have no guide books, but after years I am fine with them coming out. By then I will have had my fill of zero crowds and will be happy to share them. I see no reason to be a jackass and retaliate for guide books.

Tim Stichwrote:

There have been sections in guide books about Pikes Peak in the past, but since there was little to record, just a few lines were included. Bob D'Antonio's guide that included Garden of the Gods is one of them. It has some of the stuff like Bigger Bagger and Arching Jams. As far as I know, that guide didn't cause some stampede of climbers, because you still have to take the toll road to get there. That means each trip is $15 per person or $50 per car, or you get a year pass. Guys like Phil guide up there, so they have year passes. This area is of no interest to me, another local, because I don't like waiting at gates for someone to open them, paying some fee, and so forth. I go out 24 or down 115 to other crags that have no restrictions or just basic BLM or NF rules. Even most of the old guys who are going to buy this book won't be climbing any of the routes more than likely. Guide books are a nice memento of places visited for them, and for me, as I'll get it myself.

Many other places I go have no guide books, but after years I am fine with them coming out. By then I will have had my fill of zero crowds and will be happy to share them. I see no reason to be a jackass and retaliate for guide books.

Was the community consulted before the guidebooks creation?

Sounds like someone needs to go start a fistfight with these bitches.

M Mwrote:

Personal attacks from an admin? You must really be a somebody!

Bolts and trouble are synonymous, crowds, closures, gymbots.....

Never gotten on the wrong side of slim, Big Red, or that maniac Pnelson?

Why is no one talking about the fact that they are chopping lines that were developed on rappel in an area that has a ground up ethic? Why are we not talking about the fact that they are chopping anchor bolts that were added to climbs that have safe walkoffs?

Edit - I am going to leave this post here because it was quoted but after reaching out to several community members here in the Springs, I am going to bow out of this conversation. I am choosing no side here. 

Chris Mackwrote:

Why is no one talking about the fact that they are chopping lines that were developed on rappel in an area that has a ground up ethic? Why are we not talking about the fact that they are chopping anchor bolts that were added to climbs that have safe walkoffs?

It is my understanding that they are chopping bolts that were placed on lead.

I personally witnessed a death last season that would have been prevented by bolted anchors. A couple of camouflaged anchor bolts does almost nothing to change a climb or the aesthetics of the area, and it saves lives.

Shame on these two clowns. I hope the Colorado Springs climbing community steps up and shuts this down. 

M Mwrote:

So without the bolts how many lines would be up there and would it be book worthy?

Does every area need to be hammered with bolts and have books written about it?

I don't side with the chopping, I do side with the no book thing. To me it's a fine line to bolt for profit, maybe I'm just weird.

It’s not like there is much profit in local guidebooks. Maybe enough to cover costs of development. 

you wrote to Terry E. - basically making him feel as though he took it too far. You said something to the effect: We’re trying to get them to stop bolting, not flat out murder him. - it looks like you said this because he called Bo a “Bozzo” (unbelievably benign in my opinion.) and yet….you - below - are calling them “shitstains”. What gives with your blatant hypocrisy?
T Dwrote:

Wow, another couple of shitstains on the climbing community. Disappointing to say the least, and I wouldn't be surprised if these guys were the same people out damaging new routes in the Platte. Ironically Bosier seems to be rebolting a route at Turkey Rock. Bossy and Brad, what makes you think that bolted routes at Turkey Rock are ok but bolts on a climb at Pike's Peak aren't? Is there some old school thing you are trying to uphold? Because it is especially ironic you were caught out chopping bolts clutching your shiny new Ultralight C4s, instead of rigid-stem friends and hexes... This sport will continue to push forward, whether your sorry ass likes it or not. New bolts will appear next to the one that you chopped, and your legacy will be permanently stuck into that rock as that of someone with a broken ego and no honor. Oh and I'm pretty sure you can get charged with manslaughter if someone does get hurt because you chopped an anchor or a bolt with intent to harm (“it will be a real shame if someone buys your little book and goes out to find your route isn’t there.”)... So keep that in mind.

Todd Berlier wrote:

the plot thickens.

i (most of us) don't know all the particulars. 

what i believe is that anyone advocating for violence is worse than the choppers.

eta: my gut tells me to side against the choppers, but the only skin i have is that, imo, when these disagreements get elevated to being in public all of us lose.

I second this whole comment. 

It seems like a lot of this thread is commenting, sometimes with a lot of passion, without anyone knowing the particulars of the whole situation. 

It would probably be better if this thread was dedicated to bringing out the details of the situation... not just making angry comments...

Ya know. And finding a solution. 

M Mwrote:

I don't side with the chopping, I do side with the no book thing. To me it's a fine line to bolt for profit, maybe I'm just weird.

You are delusional.
There is no profit in publishing of guidebooks.
Just ask Chris McNamara of Supertopo fame.

Yurywrote:

You are delusional.
There is no profit in publishing of guidebooks.
Just ask Chris McNamara of Supertopo fame.

So all guide book writers are just in it for the community eh? Talk about delusional!

Tradibanwrote:

Was the community consulted before the guidebooks creation?

Literally no one cares what you think about this, Traddy. 

Usually, the guy with the crowbar wins. Juan De Fuca ( (Taco name) a friend that is no longer with us ) used to climb with a small crowbar. If you put a climb in where a climb should not go he would pull it & hand you your gear. He was a powerful climber with excellent ethics. Also, he was a very nice person. 

Things are way out of hand. 

I say chop them all and let God sort it out.